'S' on Supertrain-liveried Locos

[Leyny]

I think we all know the ‘S’ applied after the locomotive number during the CIE Supertrain era signified that the loco had been fitted with CAWS to work over the CTC-signalled lines. What I don’t know and am hoping somebody here can answer is how soon after fitting of the CAWS was this ‘S’ applied? Always instantly? Given that the initial installation of CTC covered Inchicore to Ballybrophy/Athy/Geashill, surely every mainline loco would need to have had CAWS installed as soon as CTC was launched or they’d have been severely route-restricted? So was it a case that the ‘S’ was applied on the next repaint? There were Black and Tan 141s/181s around until the very end of the 1970’s and I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen any photos of one numbered with an ‘S’ (eg B165S), which would support the ‘next repaint’ theory. Or maybe it was only applied instantly if the loco was already in Supertrain livery?

The question becomes especially relevant when considering the Murphy’s Models 121s in Supertrain Livery. Both 126 and 132 have the ‘S’, so wouldn’t be accurate for the pre-CTC era and perhaps not for a while into it either, if the policy was ‘next repaint’. That’s a little frustrating as it seems most of the Yanks were repainted into the Supertrain livery by the end of 1974 (an exception being B132 which was still in Black and Tan when involved in the fatal Gorey crash on New Year’s Eve 1975), so unless the S is manually removed, they aren’t accurate from then until the ‘S’ was applied, no earlier than 1976 and perhaps later. As I'm modelling a line that closed to all traffic in October '75, that 'S' matters!

[hurricanemk1c]

My personal understanding was CAWS started to be installed in the early 1980s for work in DART area and progressively spread across the network, rather than being a requirement for CTC controlled routes

Edited September 14, 2022 by hurricanemk1c

[BSGSV]

CAWS was not fitted coincidentally with the original Mainline CTC section. It only started appearing with the DART resignalling on the Dublin Suburban. The diesel locos used the track codes for CAWS, the DART units for ATP.

CAWS was retrofitted to the Mainline CTC in the early 1980's.

So no locos with "S" in 1975!

[Leyny]

Thanks to both of you for that clarification. 

At the risk of labouring the point on the MM Yanks, that does leave a significant gap (1972 - 1982/3ish) for which they don't have a Supertrain liveried variant. Odd because they've 2 with the S (the only differentiator as far as I can see being the 'Suitable for Air Braked Trains' stenciling) to represent a period that probably only covered about 7 years before that was replaced with the IR white stripe livery. 

 

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, Leyny said:

Thanks to both of you for that clarification. 

At the risk of labouring the point on the MM Yanks, that does leave a significant gap (1972 - 1982/3ish) for which they don't have a Supertrain liveried variant. Odd because they've 2 with the S (the only differentiator as far as I can see being the 'Suitable for Air Braked Trains' stenciling) to represent a period that probably only covered about 7 years before that was replaced with the IR white stripe livery. 

 

An interesting point with Irish RTR manufacturers focusing on the post 1980-pre 2000 most likely because of a higher level of demand than earlier or later era's.

It should be feasible to remove the s suffix without damage to the paintwork using T-Cut applied with a cotton bud.

Before the introduction of MM & IRM highly detailed rtr locos during the past 15 years anyone wanting a model of an Irish Diesel either had to scratchbuild or assemble a MIR kits.

[murphaph]

Be careful with t cut and cotton buds however. I've seen it have disastrous effects on certain RTR finishes because the numbering is sometimes very hard wearing compared to the underlying paint, which then starts to come off/turn really shiny while the numbering sometimes even stays put. If the 121s use the same numbering technique as the 071s I can say how I have removed them....using a cocktail stick and nothing else. They can be scraped off by using the sharp point. Nevertheless a slight outline trace remains but it's completely flat IIRC. I was respraying so did not care about it but the numbers are quite tough. I suspect it would have been very difficult to remove them with tcut to be honest.

At around 9 mins you can see  t cut disaster here: 

 

[Georgeconna]

All the Renumbering I did was using white Spirits on the MM Stuff. No Hassle either.

Don't try that on a IRM Product though from what I seen on some ones brake van on this forum, Not sure why there are different paints / Inks used.

 

[Broithe]

In circumstance where I don't know of "what has worked on these products before", I have found that carefully scraping a digit off with the end of a curved scalpel blade is reasonable safe.

It can leave a little 'polish' of the underlying colour, but there won't be any chemical difficulties.