If we bear in mind that the above was all but unknown prior to 1975/80, also that the main difference in peripheral rolling stock was twofold - (a) the railways had much more spare stock than now, of all types, and (b) there were spare sidings all over the place, in practically every station, we can paint a picture useful to modellers of a different landscape.
Look at the likes of the Dundalk Works layout that appears at exhibitions. Yes, trains go round and very well they look. The models are accurate and appropriate to the place and period. But look at the background! Wagons, locos and coaches in sidings, men working and so on. If none of that was on the layout it wouldn't be as convincing. Weathering also plays its part - how often have any of us gone to a railway station and seen every vehicle and building newly painted? Answer: never.
Looking under several headings....
1. Weathering.
Many of us will like pristine models, and I agree - many posted on these boards recently look STUNNING. But others prefer technical realism. One important thing is that for those who prefer realism, weathering of virtually every single thing on the layout is a must. The work of several "weatherers" on these boards is deservedly well known. Another thing is HOW things got weathered.
Any steam era layout had coal smoke hanging in the air as well as a great deal more brake dust due to more shunting. In fact, while we see pictures of both the UTA and CIE railways being comparatively well kept in the 60s, 70s and 80s, a few years earlier the environment was by today's standards, filthy. A realistic approach to modelling will therefore have light weathering on most things in the "black'n'tan" era which are IN traffic, but there will be sidings typically with a few semi- or totally abandoned 4 wheel vans in them, grey paint faded away badly, chassis a nondescript muddy / rusty colour, and roofs just looking - well - weatherbeaten. In this era, we will often have old liveries giving way to new; anything with the old will be much more weathered because it is either to be withdrawn short term, or awaits repainting. An important point here is that while diesel locos and coaches, and even wagons, in traffic were clean, this was more due to be being KEPT clean than repainted often. Per unit, paint was more expensive then than it is now, and the railway had teams of its own painters. Painting a wagon could be done in a shed, without computer-controlled specialist 2 pack machinery (whatever that is!!) and health and safety rigmaroles with ventilation and masks. If we are modelling any time in the steam era, we can generally take it that in these times, wagons were very unkempt when in use, clean grey gradually being patched up (due to economy) rather than completely repainted. Thus, wagons with "D S E R", "G S W R" and "M G W R" could be sen - tattered looking maybe, well into GSR days, almost to 1940. It is quite possible that a handful of wagons might have come into CIE ownership with VERY tattered pre-GSR initials on them. CIE seemed to embrace their new corporate image much quicker - while money was scarce, it had been even more so in GSR days. GSR era maroon coaches, especially older six wheeled ones, had their maroon faded to a (brake dust tinted) rusty red colour, especially visible on the ends.
Locos, on the other hand, in GSR days were reasonable well kept, although the "battleship grey" tended to darken after much polishing with oily rags, sometimes making the smokebox front (hotter surface - attendant effect on paint!) look almost black. Soot from the chimney added to this. Red buffer beams faded too, and the transfer numerals lost their shine, especially the gold bits. Fast forward to CIE days, and locos could hardly have looked worse. The cabside numbers were often faded to a nondescript "light" colour best described as a dirty greyish yellow, and if the tender did have a "flying snail" (not all did) it was usually worse. The external condition of many locos was a mixture of dirt, soot, coal dust and brake dust heavily coated over the grey paint. Smokeboxes often had the paint burned off them, and both somkebox doors and chimneys would be bare burned rusty brownish metal. On locos painted green, the dirt would have made most of the boiler look black, especially the dome; in fact, this was worse on ex-GNR locos. I remember some thirty years ago a lively debate among some RPSI members where some advanced the theory that the GNR painted domes black, because that's all they'd ever seen, and a look at Robert Rosbotham's book on the CDRJC shows that one might be forgiven for thinking that the CDR painted domes AND boilers black!
The silver "livery" of unpainted aluminium applied to coacjes and new diesels between 1955 and 1958 was interesting and fresh on the first day in use, but VERY rapidly became a filty dull grey - probably the least durable finish for any railway vehicle ever.
So a layout based in, say, 1960, could have very dirty wooden wagons, brand new ones in light grey, very filthy steam locos, but lightly weatherd diesel locos and coaches. Older wooden coaches are dark green still - badly faded by this stage, and well weathered, or the new (post '55) lighter green; while anything silver would certainly have the bogies weathered by brown brake dust (how long in use can BOGIES stay SILVER!!!??), and of course new post '62 black and tan would be pristine, and at that stage very much kept that way. Older wagons in fifty shades of grey (see what I did there?), and an older darker shade, faded snails included.
Livery detail: it seems that wagons painted in the earlier (probably pre-1950) period had light green snails and numerals instead of cream as later. By 1960, a few of these might rest in out of the way / rarely used places, perhaps against the buffers in a long siding.
Wooden carriages faded quicker than steel ones, probably partly due to "steels" / laminates being easier to clean (smooth surface) and the fact that anything wooden will be more susceptible to damp getting into the wood, and paint peeling. Old six wheelers used for years as brakes on branch lines might not see the inside of Inchicore or Limerick's paint shops as often, and would also be kept in the open more. Brake vehicles / mail vans etc were not cleaned as often, and the state of some of the 4 wheeled "tin vans" even in the otherwise very clean black'n'tan era was pretty grubby with brake dust.
Another livery detail worth noting: CIE painted the ends of carriages black in most or all cases, though I think some narrow gauge vehicles at least had green ends. Nothing at all in the b'n't era had "b'n't" on the ends - always black, and usually with a good smattering of brake dust. BUT - the GSR painted the ends of six wheel and non-corridor coaches the same as the body colour, with the exception of the brown and cream stock, which had black ends. It is possible that CIE painted plain dark green on the ends of stuff like that right at the start, but I haven't any evidence of it. The GSR painted the "Bredins" black on the ends.
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Question
jhb171achill
I'll post this in two parts, as the site only sems to accommodate so many words per post!
Here's part 1...
One detail on many layouts is what is in the background, lurking in weedy sidings and so on. Nowadays, most of this can be classed under the headings of (a) graffiti, (b) litter, and © security fences. It was not always thus!
If we bear in mind that the above was all but unknown prior to 1975/80, also that the main difference in peripheral rolling stock was twofold - (a) the railways had much more spare stock than now, of all types, and (b) there were spare sidings all over the place, in practically every station, we can paint a picture useful to modellers of a different landscape.
Look at the likes of the Dundalk Works layout that appears at exhibitions. Yes, trains go round and very well they look. The models are accurate and appropriate to the place and period. But look at the background! Wagons, locos and coaches in sidings, men working and so on. If none of that was on the layout it wouldn't be as convincing. Weathering also plays its part - how often have any of us gone to a railway station and seen every vehicle and building newly painted? Answer: never.
Looking under several headings....
1. Weathering.
Many of us will like pristine models, and I agree - many posted on these boards recently look STUNNING. But others prefer technical realism. One important thing is that for those who prefer realism, weathering of virtually every single thing on the layout is a must. The work of several "weatherers" on these boards is deservedly well known. Another thing is HOW things got weathered.
Any steam era layout had coal smoke hanging in the air as well as a great deal more brake dust due to more shunting. In fact, while we see pictures of both the UTA and CIE railways being comparatively well kept in the 60s, 70s and 80s, a few years earlier the environment was by today's standards, filthy. A realistic approach to modelling will therefore have light weathering on most things in the "black'n'tan" era which are IN traffic, but there will be sidings typically with a few semi- or totally abandoned 4 wheel vans in them, grey paint faded away badly, chassis a nondescript muddy / rusty colour, and roofs just looking - well - weatherbeaten. In this era, we will often have old liveries giving way to new; anything with the old will be much more weathered because it is either to be withdrawn short term, or awaits repainting. An important point here is that while diesel locos and coaches, and even wagons, in traffic were clean, this was more due to be being KEPT clean than repainted often. Per unit, paint was more expensive then than it is now, and the railway had teams of its own painters. Painting a wagon could be done in a shed, without computer-controlled specialist 2 pack machinery (whatever that is!!) and health and safety rigmaroles with ventilation and masks. If we are modelling any time in the steam era, we can generally take it that in these times, wagons were very unkempt when in use, clean grey gradually being patched up (due to economy) rather than completely repainted. Thus, wagons with "D S E R", "G S W R" and "M G W R" could be sen - tattered looking maybe, well into GSR days, almost to 1940. It is quite possible that a handful of wagons might have come into CIE ownership with VERY tattered pre-GSR initials on them. CIE seemed to embrace their new corporate image much quicker - while money was scarce, it had been even more so in GSR days. GSR era maroon coaches, especially older six wheeled ones, had their maroon faded to a (brake dust tinted) rusty red colour, especially visible on the ends.
Locos, on the other hand, in GSR days were reasonable well kept, although the "battleship grey" tended to darken after much polishing with oily rags, sometimes making the smokebox front (hotter surface - attendant effect on paint!) look almost black. Soot from the chimney added to this. Red buffer beams faded too, and the transfer numerals lost their shine, especially the gold bits. Fast forward to CIE days, and locos could hardly have looked worse. The cabside numbers were often faded to a nondescript "light" colour best described as a dirty greyish yellow, and if the tender did have a "flying snail" (not all did) it was usually worse. The external condition of many locos was a mixture of dirt, soot, coal dust and brake dust heavily coated over the grey paint. Smokeboxes often had the paint burned off them, and both somkebox doors and chimneys would be bare burned rusty brownish metal. On locos painted green, the dirt would have made most of the boiler look black, especially the dome; in fact, this was worse on ex-GNR locos. I remember some thirty years ago a lively debate among some RPSI members where some advanced the theory that the GNR painted domes black, because that's all they'd ever seen, and a look at Robert Rosbotham's book on the CDRJC shows that one might be forgiven for thinking that the CDR painted domes AND boilers black!
The silver "livery" of unpainted aluminium applied to coacjes and new diesels between 1955 and 1958 was interesting and fresh on the first day in use, but VERY rapidly became a filty dull grey - probably the least durable finish for any railway vehicle ever.
So a layout based in, say, 1960, could have very dirty wooden wagons, brand new ones in light grey, very filthy steam locos, but lightly weatherd diesel locos and coaches. Older wooden coaches are dark green still - badly faded by this stage, and well weathered, or the new (post '55) lighter green; while anything silver would certainly have the bogies weathered by brown brake dust (how long in use can BOGIES stay SILVER!!!??), and of course new post '62 black and tan would be pristine, and at that stage very much kept that way. Older wagons in fifty shades of grey (see what I did there?), and an older darker shade, faded snails included.
Livery detail: it seems that wagons painted in the earlier (probably pre-1950) period had light green snails and numerals instead of cream as later. By 1960, a few of these might rest in out of the way / rarely used places, perhaps against the buffers in a long siding.
Wooden carriages faded quicker than steel ones, probably partly due to "steels" / laminates being easier to clean (smooth surface) and the fact that anything wooden will be more susceptible to damp getting into the wood, and paint peeling. Old six wheelers used for years as brakes on branch lines might not see the inside of Inchicore or Limerick's paint shops as often, and would also be kept in the open more. Brake vehicles / mail vans etc were not cleaned as often, and the state of some of the 4 wheeled "tin vans" even in the otherwise very clean black'n'tan era was pretty grubby with brake dust.
Another livery detail worth noting: CIE painted the ends of carriages black in most or all cases, though I think some narrow gauge vehicles at least had green ends. Nothing at all in the b'n't era had "b'n't" on the ends - always black, and usually with a good smattering of brake dust. BUT - the GSR painted the ends of six wheel and non-corridor coaches the same as the body colour, with the exception of the brown and cream stock, which had black ends. It is possible that CIE painted plain dark green on the ends of stuff like that right at the start, but I haven't any evidence of it. The GSR painted the "Bredins" black on the ends.
Here endeth part 1....
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