Complete Green horn needs all the help i can get

[Finbarr]

Hey all,

 

I am in my mid forties and have a dream to build the line between Cork and Crosshaven. I grew up in Blackrock and have played in that area all my childhood days and now I have a dream (mid life crisis) to bring it back to life...

 

I have done quiet a bit of research on the line but i can take all the help i can get from scaling to layout to acquiring the right stock and so fort ..

 

So thank you for reading this and feel free to advise ....I really am a complete novice I mean complete novice .....

 

Regards

 

Finbarr

[BosKonay]

Hey Finbarr,

 

You are very welcome indeed to the site!

 

When you say novice Where are you starting from? Have you any stock at all? A controller / trainset? Or literally starting from scratch?

[Finbarr]

Ya I should have said from scratch just in the process of clearing out my shed ....LOL I complete GREENHORN lol

 

 

So any and all help is appreciated... If i go scale 00 what size area do i need ??How do i work that out ?? The scale thing is gonnna be a head wreaker for me id say

Edited April 13, 2013 by Finbarr

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Welcome to the site.

[MOGUL]

Start off simple, what area do you have available? I'm guessing you won't be building an extension to the shed for a layout!! OO scale is 1:76 if you multiply the space you have by 76 it'll give you an idea what kind of space you can model.. Also do you want an end to end layout or a continuous loop?

[Finbarr]

And Thank you for the warm welcome also

[Finbarr]

The Line was a double line to blackrock and continued on as a single line to crosshaven but after viewing some of the models on you tube i know ill be kicking my self if i dont do the big lood . My shed is a nice size 12 ft by 6 ft 4

[Guest hidden-agenda]

A few things to look at and wet the appetite.

http://www.carrigaline.ie/pages/history/railway.html

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/NG/NG_Irish_CBRPR.htm

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20C/Crosshaven/IrishRailwayStations.html

[Finbarr]

Thank you and no I want it to be a complete and true scale model down to exact detail as i can get it Im a god damn perfectionist also or so my better half keeps telling me lol

[Finbarr]

Thank you very much

[Finbarr]

Wow you just gave me there more info than i have been able to get since this idea entered my head 2 mts ago thank you ....Is 4mm 00 scale ?? in the worsley works link it brings me to that scale train Oh god maths is my failure B in Art D in maths lol

[Guest hidden-agenda]

4mm is 00 gauge. Irish railways run on 5 foot 3 inch = 21mm gauge but most settle for the standard rtr oo gauge track 16.5mm as thats what all ready to run rolling stock is produced to.

[Guest hidden-agenda]

I think Peco make a narrow gauge track.

[Finbarr]

Eureka got that simplified thank you I am now gonna go into the city to check out Marks Models might buy some thing on the scale that will give me a visual on the size also

[Guest hidden-agenda]

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/1699-Mould-Making-and-Resin-Casting

Take a look at this thread as it may give you some ideas for building stock.

[Mayner]

Hi Finbarr

 

An accurate model based on the Crosshaven line would be a serious challenge for a beginner, I dont know if you have seen photos of the railway or know anything about its history, but it closed a long time ago and the track gauge was narrower than the Irish main line railways.

 

It depends to a large degree what you want to get out of a model railway, really whether you prefer building things or running trains

a model based on the narrow gauge line would involve a lot of work as the locos and stock would basically have to be built from scratch. Suitable track is available in 1:76 OO scale but the track would have to be handlaid in O scale bascially twice the size of OO.

 

Worsley Works http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/NG/NG_Irish_CBRPR.htm, supply sheetmetal (brass) parts for building the narrow gauge locos and coaches but require a lot of work and extra parts to build into a complete loco or coach.

 

Alternatively if you want to get something running quickly there is no problem in building a layout in OO using ready to run stock Bachmann do an railcar in IE colours which is close enough to the trains used on the Cobh line, while Murphy Models and others supply a reasonable range of ready to run locos, coaches and wagons.

[Mayner]

Finbarr

 

Gareth filled you in with some information while I was writing the last post. Peco, Tillig and Bemo do suitable narrow gauge track, a Tillig or Bemo loco and a few coaches (expensive) would get something running while building CBPR locos and stock or you might even get hooked on Swiss or German Metre gauge.

 

The New Irish Lines archive contains some articles on buiding locos and stock from Worsley Works Parts, http://newirishlines.org/archive-2/, The Yahoo Irish 3' Gauge Group is a mine of information on modelling the Irish Narrow Gauge.

 

Foxrock Models on e of the contributors to the yahoo group does a very nice resin and brass kits for the CBPR goods brake an open wagon

[Riversuir226]

Welcome Finbarr:tumbsup:, used to walk the line quite a lot back in the early 00's when i lived in the area.

Theres a few books you should get to help you on our way;

The Irish Narrow Gauge, A Pictorial History, Volume One, has a full chapter on the Blackrock line plus has pictures of the locos after they moved onto the other narrow guage lines after the blackrock line closed.

The Cork, Blackrock & Passage Railway by Colm Creedon was available in Cork City library up to a few years ago, i doubt you ll pick up a copy anywhere else,

The Cork, Blackrock & Passage Railway by Stanley C. Jenkins(oakwood press) would be another good one to get.

 

 

Best of luck with your adventure

Edited April 13, 2013 by Riversuir226

[Finbarr]

Thank you for that much appreciated

[Mayner]

Finbarr

 

Good luck with your oddesy if you decide to go ahead with it with it it will keep you busy for many years.

Track Peco HOm (12mm gauge) is fine for Irish 3' http://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strParents=3309,3322&CAT_ID=3326&numRecordPosition=1

 

Track and rtr TT & HOm Tilling and Bemo are German companies that produce 12mm gauge track rtr locos and stock. Bemo produce mainly German and Swiss narrow gauge very nice very expensive and probably a good long term investment.

 

Triang TT although discontinued about 50 years ago the locos and wagon chassis were often used under scratchbuilt bodies by Irish narrow gauge modellers and may appear from time to time on the second hand market. There is a TT society in the UK spare parts areb available and second hand prices have remained reasonable.

 

Worsley Works Scratchbuilders Parts.

 

Etched Locomotive Construction by Iain Rice is probably the best guide if you are thinking of having a go at using the Worsley works parts to build some of the locos and coaches. http://www.titfield.co.uk/WSM_LOCO.htm.

 

Building Coaches the Comet Way http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/PDF/Building%20Coaches%20the%20Comet%20Way2.pdf will give you an idea of whats involved in building the Worsley Works coaches. Worsley only supply a basic body without roof and bogie frames

 

 

Although I havent built one the chassis for the CBPR 2-4-2T appears to be designed like the real locomotives and may need modification to go round curves, I think builder in the New Irish Lines article modified the chassis to allow the axle under the bunker to pivot to get round curves.

[Glenderg]

Finbarr,

 

I spent an hour rambling around the virtual trackbed of your desired location, and theres no doubt but even now it's one of the most scenic railway layouts on this island and would make for an excellent layout. Unique bridges, weird level changes, cast iron bridges across rivers, riverside track - all potentially excellent diorama material, and relatively easily achieved. I'm going to go against the advice up top and recommend that you steer well clear of narrow gauge and brass kits, after all you are a complete novice. This is your layout. It's not for exhibition, so lay the track in 00 off the shelf, and as you develop as a modeller and gain confidence you'll happily dip into the more specialist areas. But for the moment get out a sheet of A4 paper, mark it out in large 1 foot squares, and start scribbling your 16' x 6' space, with the chosen area in mind. Don't be so hung up on achieving a museum standard replica of CB& PR - As you said yourself your better at the Art than Maths, so allow some creative space. Perhaps the layout might be a large river side sweep of track terminating/running through a station like Bandon.

 

If people can recognise the area straight off, even if it is fictitious, that should be more than enough to offset the desire for perfection against an enjoyable working model.

 

Go the Ordnance Survey Site and check out the historical maps of the area http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,591271,743300,0,10

From a Permanent Way viewpoint, it's not very exciting operationally, so perhaps a bit of "creativity" is needed. As one of the lads said earlier, if you multiply your actual space by 76.2, you'll likely find you can fit bugger all in 16 feet. If you were to model Connolly Station for instance it runs to 36 feet, and that's just as far as the cast iron bridges over the river.

 

Richie.

[Finbarr]

Ritchie,,

 

Your spot on and i am going to go the 00 way and as you said if i even get blackrock done well ill be happy .And yes it is a beautiful railway the bridges and landscape it just amazing... Ill bring the camera the next day i go walking and take pictures of the old ticket station and so fort.. Thank you for the advice so my next step it prob buy a starter kit?? and which one would you recommend?

Finbarr

[Finbarr]

Thanks John I think your right...Baby steps first Im going go 00 scale see how it works out for me ..

[Mayner]

The Cork-Passage would be a good basis for a OO gauge commuter operation similar to the Cobh line either with the Bachmann railcars or Murphy Models 141s and Cravens.

 

Cyril Freezers Minories track plan is fairly simple and would be ideal for a terminus like Albert St or Passage http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60091-00-minories-track-plan-wanted/page-2 .

[Sentinel281]

Hello Finbarr,

 

If you really still consider modelling the narrow gauge, please try to avoid bemo switches. I am into continental narrow gauge for some 25 years now and my experience tells me it is better not to use them. Bemo switches have cast frogs that are made mainly from zinc that is covered with a thin layer of nickel (is it called nickel in english? well...). The points are cast parts as well. The problem is: you cannot solder anything to these parts and if you have cleaned them several times the nickel plating will vanish and you will get feeding problems every new day due to fast oxidation and you will have to rub the frogs and points every day you want to drive or nearly. In late winter I was badly in need for a stretched switch for a H0e-layout of my girlfriend and, as the other swiches available were very short, I again took a bemo switch but rebuilt it with new frog made from rails an with new points made from Z-scale rails. The thing took me a whole sunday to finish. Speaking of OO12 or H0m gauge, I much recommend the peco system that can be obtained in Britain to fairly reasonable conditions (in Germany it is so expensive that it is worth ordering them in Britain, if one takes a few items; I don't know the prices in R.I.). The Tillig switches are not bad, but one has to say their radius is less then the one of the pecos wich makes the points look more tram like. Functionality of the Tillig swiches is o.k., but be aware they have spring points which means you have to have a point motor that is strong enough to switch the switch and also to hold it.

 

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask,

 

welcome to the site

 

Gerhard.

[Mayner]

I dont want to add to the confusion but would recommend Peco rather than either Tillig or Bemo track for anyone having a go at the 3' Gauge.

 

I have used a mixture of Bemo (Shinohara) & Tillig track on my narrow gauge layout. The Bemo track was made by Shinohara in Japan and may be an earlier to the current version with cast frogs, the main problem was the flexible track was fragile and expensive.

 

Hello Finbarr,

 

If you really still consider modelling the narrow gauge, please try to avoid bemo switches. I am into continental narrow gauge for some 25 years now and my experience tells me it is better not to use them. Bemo switches have cast frogs that are made mainly from zinc that is covered with a thin layer of nickel (is it called nickel in english? well...). The points are cast parts as well. The problem is: you cannot solder anything to these parts and if you have cleaned them several times the nickel plating will vanish and you will get feeding problems every new day due to fast oxidation and you will have to rub the frogs and points every day you want to drive or nearly. In late winter I was badly in need for a stretched switch for a H0e-layout of my girlfriend and, as the other swiches available were very short, I again took a bemo switch but rebuilt it with new frog made from rails an with new points made from Z-scale rails. The thing took me a whole sunday to finish. Speaking of OO12 or H0m gauge, I much recommend the peco system that can be obtained in Britain to fairly reasonable conditions (in Germany it is so expensive that it is worth ordering them in Britain, if one takes a few items; I don't know the prices in R.I.). The Tillig switches are not bad, but one has to say their radius is less then the one of the pecos wich makes the points look more tram like. Functionality of the Tillig swiches is o.k., but be aware they have spring points which means you have to have a point motor that is strong enough to switch the switch and also to hold it.

 

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask,

 

welcome to the site

 

Gerhard.

[Sentinel281]

I dont want to add to the confusion but would recommend Peco rather than either Tillig or Bemo track for anyone having a go at the 3' Gauge.

 

I have used a mixture of Bemo (Shinohara) & Tillig track on my narrow gauge layout. The Bemo track was made by Shinohara in Japan and may be an earlier to the current version with cast frogs, the main problem was the flexible track was fragile and expensive.

 

Ah, I forgot the shinohara track. There is a difference in the track Bemo takes from shinohara and the track they produce themselves, the last is the system with the cast frogs. The Shinohara system is told to be not exactly 12 mm. I fully agree to what John said. There is another issue: The points are connected via the switching sleeper, so the whole switch is not what is called dcc friendly as the wheel flanges will make a short circuit if they touch the point that is not in use at this moment. My recommendation also is the peco track.