Suitable rolling stock for the 800 class

[jhb171achill]

Now that the iconic and much-anticipated 800s are on their way, attention turns to what they ought to haul.

I’ve seen this asked here and there ever since they were announced. 

The answer is never simple in a case like this. If we look at the Cork line as a whole, most trains were hauled by 400s, the 500s, Woolwiches and the like, after all there were only three 800s. A bit like today’s Enterprise service where only SOME services are De Dietrich’s, with the others a combination of two (and occasionally three) types of railcars. Senior boarded an up Cork some time in the early ‘50s and it had an elderly 4.4.0, running late with an impossible load for the class of engine. 

So, going back well before the 800s entered traffic, what did they actually haul, and what equivalent models are the most suitable?

First, the one thing they did NOT pull was uniform rakes of identical modern coaches! The railway as a whole had inherited a very wide variety of stock of many different types. More than a few were one-off conversions, for some specific purpose, of a class of no more than maybe a dozen or less of the same type. Some vehicles were even built as one-offs, such as the lobe Bredin bogie mail van. 

As with every line, main or branch, a mixture was the norm. 

The “Bredin” stock was introduced during the 1930s, thus being in traffic before the 800s. Contrary to popular belief, it was not a series of brand new vehicles built specifically to go with the 800s. 

The nearest commonly-available equivalent is RTR bogies of 1930s LMS design. The maroon livery of these is almost identical to GSR maroon anyway, which is handy. 

But no train was made up entirely of these. The dining car will be an older timber-bodied design, typically GSWR, but could be DSER or MGWR. There might be a SINGLE Pullman car, typically still in the short-lived GSR brown & cream; these were third class snack cars. Senior recalled seeing one newly painted in maroon, but as far as I am aware the others were brown and cream probably until the CIE green era.

Mail was carried in older (usually GSWR) six-wheeled and bogie vans, and timber-bodied TPOs.

First class coaches were typically ex-GSWR side-corridor bogies, like preserved RPSI 1142.

Attached photos show the general idea; later I will post details of the nearest equivalent models available. 

Note, GSWR livery on the models is original; same vehicles would all have been maroon when 800 first set sail. 

Second last model is a 1930s “Bredin” composite, the most modern stock available when the 800s were new. 

These models (of Cyril Fry’s collection) may be seen in the Malahide Model Railway Muaeum. 

[Galteemore]

I suspect the easiest way to acquire the look is to take a random mix of LMS, Southern and GWR coaches, paint as required, and assemble into a rake. Assuming you don’t look too closely that will give you the ‘liquorice all sorts’ effect 

[Mol_PMB]

For an 800-hauled express, most of the vehicles ought to be gangwayed. The odd extra van or strengthening carriage might be non-gangwayed. 

Internal arrangement would be a mix of corridor compartment stock and open saloon stock. The GSWR built quite a lot of gangwayed saloon stock in the 1900s, which lasted into the 1960s. The GSR preferred compartments for express stock.

The roof line would also be very varied. Arc roofs (high and low variants), elliptical or 3-curve roofs, and two shapes of clerestory roof could all be mixed in one train. 

The IRRS has recently uploaded a super collection of photos by David Murray which include lots of whole-train images of passenger expresses in the early 1950s. That was before CIE's carriage programme had made much of an impact, so the train formations in these photos would be mostly stock from the 1900s to 1930s period. 

Click here and look at pages 4, 5, and there are some on page 3 too:

David Murray [Collection] | Flickr

When I get back from hols I will be building the trial etch for my GSWR 50' gangwayed open third. Not that I have an 800 to run it behind!

 

[K801]

The 800s could be run as "preserved " hauling already available RTR Cravens, Laminates and PRs

[jhb171achill]

28 minutes ago, K801 said:

The 800s could be run as "preserved " hauling already available RTR Cravens, Laminates and PRs

Very much so, yes, and it would allow an excuse for a GSR-liveried one to haul something other than maroon stock.

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

I suspect the easiest way to acquire the look is to take a random mix of LMS, Southern and GWR coaches, paint as required, and assemble into a rake. Assuming you don’t look too closely that will give you the ‘liquorice all sorts’ effect 

Indeed. GWR-type, and even more so the designs of the LNER and SR, were so utterly unlike anything that ever ran on any line in Ireland, that even at a vague glance they just wouldn’t look right, but if all in maroon or lined CIE green, it would at least present the mixed appearance you mention. 

[Der Rechtsanwalt]

I wonder will IRM produce suitable coaches to compliment the 800 class when it arrives? I suppose that depends on how well it sells.

[Westcorkrailway]

I’m sure one day soon, that will happen. But a Reminder that IRM’s Beet wagons are prototypical rolling stock for a CIE 800!

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I’m sure one day soon, that will happen. But a Reminder that IRM’s Beet wagons are prototypical rolling stock for a CIE 800!

Not as a regular thing, though….. another “one-off” would be a transfer of a handful of empty cattle trucks somewhere in the Cork area once….. in their last days. 

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Not as a regular thing, though….. another “one-off” would be a transfer of a handful of empty cattle trucks somewhere in the Cork area once….. in their last days. 

At least with cattle wagons and beet wagons, it’s more of a where/When if over a what if