Ironroad

I questioned this with rails about a year ago and this is the response I received;- On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 4:39 AM Rails of Sheffield <info@railsofsheffield.com> wrote:

Hi Fran, thank you for the elaboration. Just to clarify one point, I wasn't suggesting that you pause the Hunslet project, rather I was suggesting that despite the natural progression to a class 80 release. it might be a good idea to park that in favour of the AEC Railcar. All the best Tom

Firstly, the apples to apples comment was a response to BosKonay’s posting “ The Class 89 is a class of 1 and has sold better than the A class” I don’t know how this separate posting got tagged onto my response to John. But regardless I don’t think the comparison is fair as considering the scale and diversity of the British market I would expect even a class of one such as this would outsell even the most common Irish class on the Irish market. Beyond that, it is worth re reading your posting on Jan 21. The tone of this was quite dire and if I may I’ll quote a few extracts. “We can see a big slow down in purchases” “The sad reality is that there is likely to be less and less offerings in Irish outline as a result if the trend is a continuous one. “ “But if everyone is full up, then our output will likely severely restrict going forwards.” “With the NIR stuff, if you want to see an 80 Class in the future, the decision to tool one is entirely dependent on the sales of the Hunslets and these coaches.” So forgive me for reaching the conclusion that with all of the backlog coming to market this year clearing the decks), nothing on the agenda beyond this year, and the statements above, that we are at the end of the road. My reaction to this was to try and provide you with thoughts on what may be at the root of the slowdown in sales through the lens of a customer and while your colleague viewed this as “rude” I was somewhat heartened if not entirely reassured by some of the things you have said since. As for the slow sales of the rerun of the 141/181 class locos by another producer, it may be that while in the “sweetspot” this was overly ambitious in terms of the quantities produced. Many of us do purchase on the basis of as you put it “As we say, if it's what you want, grab it.” and I have 13 of these locos from the original run. I don’t think we are “full up”, I think the slowdown is more due to a few offerings that have limited interest, despite the beauty of the modelling. I have appended a table to put this in perspective. This is not intended to be a comprehensive listing; rather it is a list of items already offered or coming models, plus a mooted item and a couple of what I believe are highly desired items. The number in class and length of time in service can usually be used as a measure of marketability. So this list clearly demonstrates that there has been a very deliberate attempt to hit the “sweetspots” by that other producer and in general given the scarcity of these items they seem to have been successful launches. But by the same measurements I was surprised by IRMs announcements of the 800’s and the Hunslets. The 800 is iconic but a bit limited from a modeller's perspective (there was a lot of discussion on this forum as to what would be desirable) and I think collectors wishing to display them in glass cases are a bigger market. As for the Hunslets, they really only saw service for 10 years and were displaced in 1980 by the 111 class, a model of which was already available to haul the Mk 2 NIR liveried coaches you had already released. Not to forget models of 201 class nos. 208 & 209 were also available. But despite seeing these offerings as very very limited, knowing they will be of a very high standard and in the spirit of my continuous support for you I ordered one 800 and two Hunslets, but compare that to the nine Class A locos I purchased. I also have just a single 3 car ICR on order despite the fact that my period of interest is 1950 - 2000. Compare with an order for thirteen Park Royals. Again looking at the list, it would seem there is a reasonable case for a Class 80 release, (much more so than the Hunslets). However, even if the Hunslets and Blue & Crimson Coaches sell, it might be a good idea to park that for the time being and attempt to kick start sales a bit with something like the AEC railcars, even a drip feed of these. I would buy every version offered and at least six C Class locos. As always you have my support and respect for what you do. Thank you Tom Loco/Railcar No. in Class Service Period Notes Class 800 3 1939- 1962 Redundant after 1955 AEC Railcar 60 CIE, 20 GNRI 1950-1984 Last 8 years as Push Pulls A Class 60 1955-1995 C Class 34 1956 - 1986 6 with NIR until 1997 121 Class 15 1961 - 2008 141 Class 37 1962 - 2010 181 Class 12 1966 - 2009 101 Class Hunslet 3 1970-1999 Limited use beyond 1980 80 Class (Thumpers) 22 1975-2011 3 sets leased by IR '87-'90 071 Class 18 IR, 3 NIR 1977 - Present 201 Class 32 IE, 2 NIR 1994- Present

Hi Leslie, thank you, I don't think I'm too far behind you and wondered if my memory was playing tricks on me and gladly it wasn't. I remember travelling to Bray & Greystones on steam trains, to Belfast behind a Jeep. I also remember travelling in the first class compartment of an AEC Railcar where the drivers compartment was separated by a glass partition (the upholstery was green) and you had the drivers view of the route. Of course ultimately the daily drudge of commuting becomes a blur but it is impossible to forget the AEC Railcars in their final spartan state pushed and pulled by C class locos. While the class 80 on the other hand was really peripheral in the scheme of things south of the border.

Looks like platform 7, any idea when this picture was taken?

Hi John, I bow to your superior knowledge on railway operations in Ireland, however you state that the 80 class operated on the Howth to Bray service. I travelled daily between Howth Junction and later from Harmonstown to Tara St from 1981 to 1991 and never saw an 80 on that service or travelled in one. But I do remember seeing them at platform 7 in Connolly on the Maynooth service but that was for a very very short period of time. To be fair you are not comparing apples to apples

I agree whole heartily with @ttc0169. Considering the acknowledged slowdown in sales of the items IRM have judged appropriate to produce, perhaps they should be listening to their customers. While doubtless our brethren in the north would appreciate a class 80, it is a very niche item for the rest of us. I think the only time they operated in service in the South was for a short time in the 1980's on the Connolly to Maynooth service. Yes the 80 represents another opportunity to take advantage of a crossover from the UK range but contributes further to an imbalance in the products being offered. All three liveries of the enterprise from 1970 to 1994 plus the Hunlets are already with us or in the pipeline. For the majority of us the AEC Railcars would make a lot more sense and that includes our northern friends. And for that matter the C class loco would have made more sense than the Hunslets. Bear in mind we already had 071 and 201 locos in NIR liveries to haul the already issued blue and grey and wasp liveried MK 2 enterprise coaches. I will buy the blue and crimson coaches but can think of models I would prefer to be spending this money on, and I don't like to think that this is contributing to another off the mark offering.

Some thoughts on this. I do not like nay saying, particularly when it doesn't speak for me and I suspect many others. The slowdown is understandable and has been with us for a while. A lot is coming on stream this year but in truth a lot of this has been in the pipeline for years and it is rather unfortunate this is all coming together as a glut. Currently per the Accurascale website all Irish models that are planned are due for delivery in 2026 and I'm quite concerned that that may be the end of the road. And it is very worrying when some on here seem to be endorsing this as OK. I have purchased every offering in sizeable quantities from IRM from the beginning except for items I considered too niche, IE weedspray stuff and the magnesite wagons. Even the NIR offerings are a bit niche for many of us and in short lived liveries and represent an imbalance in the offerings, but understandable releases since there was cross over with the UK range. I will purchase the blue and maroon coaches with a bit of reluctance and I suspect there others that feel this way. So if I were to offer advise to IRM for the future of the Irish market, I would suggest a focus on the items that were ubiquitous and long lived in many liveries and uses. So AEC Railcars, Laminate coaches and C class locos would make a lot of sense and would sell in good quantities. The falloff in sales is perhaps due to two factors, initial enthusiastic over purchasing and the more recent sharp increase in prices some of which literally stopped me in my tracks, e.g. 130 euro for 3 H vans an incredible 43.33 each It's at this point that one starts looking at items that can be bought at half that price (or less) and made to look like reasonable representations. So going forward to ensure sustainability maybe just one new significant release on an annual basis is the way to go, perhaps supplemented with reruns or variations of previous releases. In closing, i wonder if there would be an Accurascale had there not been an IRM which was a brave venture to begin with. I

To help with the count, I'd buy tin vans in all versions and liveries. And for those for whom the period is too early, I think the TPO was repurposed for use on PW and weed spray trains in the '80s & '90s

Despite the apparent impracticalities, the no parking sign indicates the spot is reserved for containers, as it seems to read; "Container installation from 8am Jan 7 2026 until 10pm on Jul 13 2026" So if these are being swapped out on a daily basis, expect to see pictures of a further 183 containers from Dave. And just maybe he'll catch them in the act of placing one.

May I offer the following for those who may wish to use open wagons with the inherent problem of how to create the illusion of full wagons entering a plant and empties leaving it. The attached is a rough sketch of a scheme that it may be possible to incorporate in some layouts (with apologies to JHB for using Dugort Harbour for illustration purposes). The idea is to create a passing loop on a continuous circuit with the centre section of the loop concealed by a scenic break and placing industries either side of the break. The sketch shows a mine and a processing plant, allowing empties to enter the mine and continue through out of the processing plant, destined for the mine and for a full train to enter the processing plant and emerge as a full train from the mine destined for the processing plant. As an aside it gives some purpose to trail chasing.

Irish was not my forte at school so I stand open to correction, but I think the name Quartertown in Irish is simply " Baile na Ceathrún". Muileann means mill, so 'Muileann Ḃaile Na Ceathrún' would mean Mill of Quatertown. Note omitting the prefix Muileann means there is no buailte/séimhiú on the B of Baile. And just to add while I think there may have been additions since I went to school, the letters J, K Q, V, W, X Y & Z, did not exist in the Irish alphabet. For Irish place names see https://www.logainm.ie/en/s?txt=Quartertown P.S. the H after the T in Ceathrún, should be omitted and replaced with a buailte as has been pointed out.

A couple of MGWR 3rds would be of interest to me but I'm on the fence here as this would be toe in the water project for me, Do we have any idea of price and what absent parts do we need to provide details of to Killian?

Yes Base Toys, see https://www.marksmodels.com/?pid=18137

Assuming you mean 8.3 cm, the grade is approx 1/38.

So following the logic of the numbering of the variations being offered. Packs one in either grey or brown livery in the range 26001-26123 with corrugated ends and flush sided doors, represent the first iteration. Packs three, in either grey or brown livery in the range 26185 - 26208 with corrugated end and panelled doors, represent the second iteration. Packs two in either grey or brown livery in the range 26381 - 26487 with cross braced ends and flush sided doors represent the third iteration. These packs also include a fourth iteration as some of the later wagons had VAC pipes, in model form these are 26405 & 26430 in grey and 26422 in brown. However the latest running number 26487 in brown is not described as having vac pipes, is this correct?

OK, and perhaps I'm missing something but it'not clear to me which variations are contained in each pack and some elaboration on the time frame of each variation would be helpful.

There are two different end panels on these models, can anyone shed light on this, thank you

Hi Jonathan, If Sambo didn't venture beyond Inchicore, where would a loco shunting the sidings at the Nth City Mills have come from? Maybe the Midland yard and if so do you know what where they using there before diesel? Additionally which shed would it have been stabled at, Broadstone or Inchicore? Thanks Tom

Probably not intended but with respect, that statement misrepresents the true scale of what is involved. The planned annual output of the mine is 1.8 increasing to 2.2 million tonnes annually. https://www.boliden.com/49034a/globalassets/operations/exploration/mineral-resources-and-mineral-reserves-pdf/2024/resources-and-reserves-tara-2024-12-31.pdf That's over 5,000 tonnes or about 160-170 truckloads daily. The capacity of the northern line is an issue but not if this ore is moved off peak as has traditionally been the case for freight on main lines.

Does anyone know of an existing model that is any way close to "Sambo". It is highly probable that this loco worked the North City Mills, and ideal for a diorama.

This from Mayner (John Mayner-JMDesigns) would probably fit the bill very nicely but I don't know if he is still producing them.

Hi John, There's no doubt that there has been massive improvement in the road infrastructure, but even that is barely sufficient to keep pace with increasing volumes of traffic as the city grows. I suspect it's been some time since you drove on the M50. If using the existing rail infrastructure was a condition of the original planning permission then that still makes sense today and if the powers that be have any commonsense when it comes to traffic control then they should be insisting on the use of rail for this freight. Nor is this a level paying field, the fact is that the railway would probably loose in any tendering process against road freight because they don't pay for the roads they are pounding. it's the ordinary motorist that subsides the road freight industry with the disproportionate high levels of road tax they are required to pay. Tom

Good question for those of us that stick with DC, of which I suspect there are quite a few.