Northroader

Just looking at the leading coach of the Cootehill train, I must acknowledge Leslie McA’s help with a drawing, which shows it as a R2 tricomposite. The body is 30’ long and 8’9” wide, with a 10’1.5”+10’1.5” wheelbase. Near end there’s two third compartments, with a more generous spacing of 5’9.75” between partitions. Then there’s two side by side lavatories, with a spacing of 3’5.5”, followed by a first class compartment, and then a second class, both compartments having 6’10.75” space between partitions. The lav’s are reached by short passageways, that for the thirds being the far side of the coach. I just show a sketch of the arrangement, as it’s nearly a corridor, but not quite. As to the carriage lighting, I’ve read that the GNR was a pioneer in introducing electric lights, which accounts for the bare roofs in some pictures. I think I’ll stick to the oil lamp chimneys for my model, giving it a pre 1900 look. You'll appreciate as it caters for all three classes, it just needs a brake van, and you’ve got a full train, so it’s just what’s wanted for a very short branch line terminus, and will be down on my must do modelling list.

ask, and ye shall receive… (our local butchers, and we’re moving!)

True, it was the only picture I could find, red/brown would have been better.

The one that sticks in my mind is leaving St.Johns on a Peel train, with the Ramsey line running parallel for quite a way out of the station. The Peel and Ramsey trains departed simultaneously, side by side over the level crossing, and you could look across and damn near touch the coaches of the Ramsey train. The engines would be pounding away, and after a few hundred yards the lines would split, the Peel line dropping down to the side of the river, the Ramsey line rising on an embankment to an over bridge over the main road. You could then enjoy seeing the Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T in full flight. Magic!

I’m starting to wonder about the initial idea of cannibalising English GNR coaches. The drawing I placed for the 29’ luggage van is probably the best chance, given a new roof. The main difference for six wheel thirds is the English GNR used five compartments, Dundalk went for six, as per the one at Downpatrick. The drawing for a U2 diagram coach shows a body 30’ long and 8’9” wide, so six compartments allows less than 5’ per compartment between partitions, with two wooden benches facing each other, very restricted legroom, and five a side seating to manage sixty people in the coach. Not ideal travelling conditions! The construction requires square cut windows, and the mouldings covering the panels can be strips meeting at right angles, no rounded corners, which is a very handy way of going on, but there’s still very many cuts to make, so a full third loses its attraction. Composites and brake thirds sound more enticing. The drawing shows three oil lamps per carriage, symmetrically placed above pairs of compartments, whereas the Amiens Street picture shows six oil pots on the roof, one per compartment.

The battens on the floor are fairly common on cattle wagons, and I would think the purpose is as you say. Not having your commercial knowhow, Leslie, about what sells and what doesn’t, but I would think a “convertible” wagon with the centre open roof section would be popular, as having a distinctively Irish look, although a rarity by the time diesels appeared..

Well, John, moving to a much smaller house showed me I had to offload many finished models, and scrap what was lying around in unfinished layouts, and this has worked very well. I’ve met a lot of new faces, who I now regard as friends, and I feel my models have all gone to good homes. The items that are going with me all need finishing. One thing that has emerged is that everyone says go on with what you’re doing, so whilst there should be a clean slate, in effect I’ll need to have a micro layout, which is ‘common user’, like a small theatre with frequent scene shifting, even if the track will look odd in some applications. There’s some lovely models appearing in 4mm scale, but I’m afraid 7mm has become ingrained, and I’ll stick with it. I think I need to follow the example of the two Daves on here, and go for the proper gauge for this projected GNR idea, meaning two micro layouts rather than one. (Problems with the boss here, I think!) Good luck with the 4mm East Anglian idea, the one that caught my interest recently is “Lockdown Fen”. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/159751-lockdown-fen-4mm-wuish/

Moral of this is: join the I.R.R.S ! Thanks, Leslie and Richard McLachlan, just wish I could produce the models as fast as the drawings came!

Just picked up a drawing of the equivalent Doncaster built van, which can’t be far away from the ones in the pictures, and should give a basis: Thank you, Leslie, you’ve got me imagining someone at the side of a lake with this marvellous view, sipping a glass of sparkling wine as his lunch goes down, when the phone goes…

But when you look at the Knockmore and Amiens Street pictures, 1890-1910 era, there are lower footboards visible back then. There must have been a purge some time later.

It’s fun when you start digging, isn’t it? Here’s the carriage sidings in the middle of Amiens Street in 1890, rather a cloudy image but given it's under a mucky old roof.. Definately oil lamps in use back then. The nearest coach is four compartments with a central luggage locker, composite or first? Then a ventilated van, which must be vac fitted for perishable traffic, then a six compartment third.

Thanks for your reply, Jonathan, I picked up on your mention of Cootehill, did an enquiry, and lo and behold! Six wheelers on the GNR in 1939! A composite lav., plus a full brake with an open door. Just the sort of train that’s needed:

I was looking at a shot of Knockmore Junction, and trying to work out the composition: they look like six wheelers, and there’s a full brake, and a six compartment third, (thanks, Niles, just like the one you’ve picked out) then two others. No oil lamp chimneys visible, was the GNR using gas or electric lights by then?

Just looking ahead at what I could be gainfully employed on in the future, and sizing up options available. I was wondering about an old GNR branch, pre 1900 setting, with a minimal amount of rolling stock. It struck me that I’ve seen hardly any photos of passenger trains for then, is there any information around at what Dundalk was doing before the bogie coaches were introduced? There’s some nice 3D prints produced for what was coming out of Doncaster, which could possibly be tweaked, main difference as far as I can see being a single radius roof instead of a “cove” roof.

There are toilets provided between the first and second compartments. it’s built with a strip of wood shaped to the roof profile, and a strip of wood for the floor, and blocks to keep ‘em apart. The build is heavy, too heavy, when Sylph is hitched to it and a brake third, there’s a lot of wheel spin getting the thing underway. don’t go out at night with it in your pocket, if you’re ‘stop and searched’ you’ll get done for carrying an offensive weapon.

French narrow gauge,, eh? There is a very tasty web site…… http://www.passion-metrique.net/forums/index.php

Thank you,Ken, really appreciate that, as I’m a big fan of your modelling output. For now everything’s boxed up, with a lot already moved on to my daughters as being less trouble, so all I can do for now is enjoy the websites, and doubtful if we’ll go for another couple of months yet. It’s time, isn’t it? My next models are sure to take a long time to appear, but everyone in contact is very firm about me keeping things going.

OK, mate, enjoyed having you and Linda. I’m interested to see how this will shape.

You never think of Americans doing shelf layouts, do you? It’s all damned great cavernous basements and tracks off everywhere, with a dozen guys to work it. Tell the truth and shame the devil, my copy of “Cameo Layouts” was last seen being packed in a cardboard box and going into a dealers van. (Mark Godding of Devizes, an online dealer, I’d best give him a plug, as he give me a fair price, I thought, and folks like Rail-Books didn’t want to know. https://www.mgoddingltd.co.uk) Theres a useful source of ideas for small lines here: https://micromodelrailwaydispatch.com some are a bit too much of a good thing, but I am drawing ways and means from there.

In between the family taking down furniture and me throwing things in the bin, I can’t help but have my mind turning forwards to what sort of a model layout could I do at the new place? It would be small, very small, it would be 7mm scale, because that’s what I like working in. It would be a micro layout, sort of a couple of lines fed from a fiddle stick. Pretty well all the micro layouts are wagon shunts, goods yard/ industrial sidings, but I do like to see a passenger operation as well, so a platform with some small station building in the mix. A running line and a siding to park a wagon would be alright. where and when and what? keep on pondering….. I think I’ve got the back scene sorted, though. (Lifted from an artwork and flipped, apologies to Dennis Orme Shaw, the artist, my intention is to use this as a basis to copy for my own paint job)

Very good looking MGWR train. Being a dinosaur, I use an artists paint brush, dip it in a tin of Humbrol, and then put it on with a sort of brushing action. Spray cans??

You dreamt it. They were never that clean.

And you’ve got a beach!

Just harking back to pipe round the front of the smoke box on MGWR engines, (sorry I should have spotted this post at the time) I’m fairly certain it’s the train pipe for the vacuum brake, and it seems to be peculiar to the Midland engines, and Mr. Atock. There’s a swivel joint low down on the RHS, and the whole arched bit could swing forward. There’s a flexible hose dangling down on the LHS to connect with the bag on the rolling stock when the engines going backwards, though you can never find a photo showing this happening. Once the old boy retired, it looks like there was a move to replace this arrangement with the conventional swan neck in front of the buffer beam. Just guessing he must have felt that would get in the way of opening the smoke box door and shovelling ash out?

It’s a tea room, though! Alright, then, pack a few of me books, no modelling now until I get there, though, as it’s all packed away. Keep on IRM and enjoy the craic, though. Thanks, guys. Bob.