merlinxlili

Wayside, what an amazing piece of work! Well done so far! Please don't waste time in getting it at least partly operational, otherwise your bambinos will have grown and lost interest. I learned that the hard way. I would also make sure that all that sand is very well secured otherwise it will the gears, motors & wheel bearings on your locomotives and rolling stock.

Achill, a tiny bit of nit-picking about the NIR spoil hoppers. I doubt very much that the one-sided loading arrangement was the reason for some instability in these wagons. Rather it was a case of their relatively high centre of gravity (hopper = an inverted triangle plus extension) combined with very stiff springs on a 4-wheeled arrangement. I think NIR did some tinkering with the spring rates after a few derailments.

So it looks as though the radial trucks have an etched box containing the axles which can move horizontally as well as bearing the end of the common suspension spring to control vertical movement. I guess you made this yourself based on the LRM original. It all looks very nice - well done!

Well done Phil! How did you arrange the radial trucks please, and which gearbox do you use? Continuous springing, also bearing on the radial trucks?

I have just been down this route - you can contact Roger Crombleholme on sirberkeley@outlook.com. Very helpful and an enormous range of stuff, including the Tyrconnell 7mm etched kits.

Colin, first of all well done if you have a go at modelling the County Donegal. Most Irish narrow gauge railways were supercharged with character, from our modern perspective, although the actual local environment in the 1950s and before would have been dominated by other factors. Also, at least as far as Co. Donegal was concerned, the railways were THE transport system - useful to bear that in mind. But from my comfortable, warm armchair nowadays, they were simply fantastic railways. However, what I meant to say was to support your conclusion of not trying to build a 100% exact model of a particular station, but rather apply a bit of artist's license when you cannot find pictures for all the buildings and details. Most railway companies seemed to build according to their own style, which is logical, so if you do not know the details of the Stranorlar carriage workshop except that it was made of wriggly tin, then why not scour the available photographs for similar sheds and sketch up an approximation from what you find? Personally I would go for something that is 3/4 accurate, but including as much of the right character as possible. Good luck!

Paddy, Why don't you have a look at Provincial Wagons here http://www.provincialwagons.com/ . Although you say "no kits" these are very simple kits in resin that can be glued together; like a simple Airfix kit. They have a large range including many unique Irish wagons that you will not find anywhere else.

John, A great initiative, again! There is no doubt that the Markits wheels are wonderfully easy to mount and ready quartered, so having that advantage available for Irish railway modellers using 21mm would be a big bonus. However when we begin to talk about introducing another variant on the gauge, I am not so happy. When you described a comprehensive specification for 21mm EMFine track and wheels last year, I concluded that this is an excellent compromise, especially since it transpires that quite a few of the people who have modelled in 21mm seem to have used that system instead of the more rigorous P4 specifications. I suppose that I am lazy but I feel that EMF would provide most of the delicacy and broadness of Irish track, while significantly reducing the amount of work required to build and maintain a 21mm railway, compared with P4. So far so good. But the number of people who pursue 21mm in some form is painfully small, so I believe that we should avoid multiplying the number of gauge possibilities in order to concentrate whatever supplier interest we can muster. Also, probably a silly suggestion. You have identified that there appear to be risks from using 5mm wide wheels with the EMF track gauge. Since we are talking about building kits, is it so big an extra job to modify the splashers, etc? Alternatively what about getting the Markits wheels machined down to reduce their width? Arranged by the modeller I mean, not Markits. That is my two ha'pence-worth. Once again, I fully support your efforts to find a way of making 21mm modelling easier and not so scary. The adage that the last 10% of achieving perfection costs 90% of the effort is probably exaggerated, but carries a great deal of truth for me.

Thank you John. As you say the distance between track centres seems to be as long as the proverbial piece of string. Having sniffed around the web for a bit, the best advice seems to be to test this out before you begin to design or lay track seriously, using your longest and widest rolling stock. For reference I found the 48 mm on Templot for 21mm track, while someone quoted the de facto separation for Peco set track as 64mm! Interestingly the GWR often had a more generous spacing because they had inherited much of their alignments from Mr Brunel, but otherwise the railway companies would have used as narrow trassees as possible to minimise the cost of buying land.

John, You mentioned somewhere that your previous 21mm project suffered from having insufficient separation of double tracks. What centre-to-centre measurement did you use and what would you recommend instead? How does 48.6 mm sound? With respect to 21mm wheelsets can those from Gibsons not be used, available in OO, EM & P4 profiles? They have plastic centres and 21mm axles are not available from them, but that should not cause insurmountable problems.

Big improvement Eoin! Takes the bare look off it.

Yessir! Roller, triangular and flangeway gauges plus Brook-Smith back-to-back wheelset gauge are all available for 21mm.

Very good John! The bottom line appears to be that one can build track to 21mm P4 standards, but use EM section wheels and it works. Is that right? The article in MRJ was written by a modeller who had built a large railway which suffered from persistent derailments. Apparently this is a relatively common problem at exhibitions which leads to complaints about unreliability, the need for constant fettling, etc. Needless to say there has been some debate on the subject. In my opinion this is a matter of horses for courses. Obviously it is pleasing to build a railway as accurately as possible and to develop skills as one goes along, but on the other hand few people have the luxury of being able to spend lots of time on their hobby, so a compromise has to be made. The mind's eye is a wonderful help for this, provided one doesn't take any close-up photographs which unfortunately the/my mind's eye refuses to accept. So my own conclusion so far is that I would like to build railway models as accurately as possible, within my limitations of time and skill, but also concentrating on what is visually important (obviously the thing has to work well). I also throw in the idea that for any prototype there are a number of things that really characterise it in a model, which are probably subjective to each modeller. So a modeller should try to get these details right, while many other aspects may be compromised with minimal effect. For me big clunky wheels, rods, etc, ruin the effect, so finer running gear is highly desirable. I would like to build in 21mm gauge and make use of finescale track to achieve that delicate look. The use of EM wheels seems to be a great compromise, providing slender wheels with a much greater chance of them staying on the track. The S4 society have all the gauges needed for track and wheel set construction to P4 standards, including 21mm gauge. Maybe better not to mention that EM wheels might be used?

Any news on this? I thought that Alan needed a decent drawing or two. Wonderful opportunity to get kits for 6 wheelers with largely rectangular mouldings.

Wonderful news! We have waited a long time for this!

Ernie, what about inserting a large mirror on the wall behind your train shed & goods shed? That would double the visual depth of those sheds. You would see trains coming and going at both ends of course, but the mind's eye should sort that out.

In a fully vacuum-fitted passenger train was it necessary to have the brake coach at the rear end of the train? I imagine that having the handbrake there would provide an extra margin of safety in case of the train dividing. If so, it would be logical that fixed train formations would have a brake coach at each end, to avoid shunting at the end station? I do not see any requirement for this in the 1949 rule book I have. Apologies for this basic question.

A very interesting thread guys. Here are a few opinions to entertain you. My very small kids started off developing a taste for Thomas DVDs (very good modelling there – have a look some of you!), then progressed to a DVD of the History of British steam (to see real steamers) and now prefer one of my Markle DVDs on Irish diesels all in orange & black. All this in 6 months. So why should they be so interested? Their exposure to real, toy or model trains has as yet been very limited. Someone mentioned that they are not interested in railcars. I have quite broad interests in railways but would admit to having a very limited interest in the most modern generation of railcars. However I find the early Irish railcars fascinating, even though I have only seen one or two examples. They were world leaders in their day and somehow the styling and character of them seemed much more attractive to me than the latest types, despite the obvious improvements in technology & comfort. So I think that a great big part of railway modelling is the (subconscious?) wish to produce a reminder of how things were before. Just look at the present interest in modelling Irish rail freight, even though there is now very little running in real-life. Personally I would love to build a 1950s or -60s Irish railway with beautiful countryside, or the sort generated by Colm Flanagan and his gang. Reproducing actual railway operation is another honeypot which can generate great interest. I suspect that very few attain that particular nirvana, since you really need a group of enthusiasts and a largish railway for it to work. My favorite model railway of this sort is the WLWR Moygraney line in 7mm which has been in-building for several decades. I guess a club is the only chance for that sort of thing. This says nothing about why young folk should develop an interest in railway modelling, unless perhaps they move over from a general interest in railways or other types of modelling.