Mol_PMB

Beta-testing comments... Threading the rail through is very easy. At first I thought it was too easy and that the rail wouldn't be held securely enough, but once it's in it seems to stay put and there is good resistance to rail roll or gauge spread. So that's all good. The gauge is nominally 21mm or perhaps very slightly over - it might be closer to 21.2mm. Better to be wide than narrow, it will help rigid wheelbases on curves. Also good. The top faces of the sleepers are slightly textured as a consequence of the manufacturing process, and there are some minor blemishes, but actually it looks pretty much like wood grain with the odd knot hole, and I think that once installed it will look much better than a perfectly smooth surface. Again, a consequence of the manufacturing process is that there are very fine plastic 'hairs' sprouting from the moulding in places. As yet I haven't found a good way of getting rid of these - they are extremely fine. Any hints from the other beta-testers would be welcome! Regardless of that last minor issue, this is a very quick way to produce 21mm gauge flexitrack. Bravo!

Just a note on the numeral style on the front of CIE diesels in the supertrain livery, since it came up elsewhere. On 141/181 class, the number on the front was on an orange background, and the early repaints in 1972/73 used wider numerals with a seriffed 1, white shaded black, the same as on the sides. Later repaints had narrower sans-serif white numerals without shading. Locos with the shaded serif style included: 141, 148, 156, 158, 160, 163, 173, 175, 182-190. It is possible there were a few more, but of the 141 class they were a minority. Some of these locos were still carrying this style in 1980, others had been repainted and received the unshaded numerals. In fact Ernie's photo of 141 shows it still bore this style in 1982: However, many of the 141s stayed in black'n'tan until 1975-77 and these locos had the unshaded numerals from the start. Here's 167 in 1977, fairly freshly repainted in supertrain livery - it had been BnT until then: On the 001 class, the number on the front was on a black background, and the first loco repainted (001) had numerals in white shaded orange. A few other early 001 repaints appear to have had the narrower sans-serif numerals, with orange shading - here's 044 with what appears to be that scheme: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510419722/ Other repaints had narrower sans-serif white numerals without shading. 002 and 031 were two of the earlier repaints of 001s in 1973, and are seen here at Inchicore freshly painted and not yet released to traffic: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569590047/ 008 was another early 001 class repaint in 1973, and was destroyed that same year. Here is the hulk, again it has the narrower sans-serif white numerals without shading: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511314466/ 003 and 004 were repainted around 1974, and are seen here in 1977 looking a bit tatty, with narrower sans-serif white numerals without shading: 211, 215 and 233 were early repaints of the former C class in supertrain livery in 1973, and they had the narrower sans-serif white numerals without shading. Here's 215 in 1975: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570883400/ The earlier 101 class repaints and had a different variation - the wider numerals with seriffed 1, without shading (or it might be black shading on black paint), here's 107: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570644283/ The early 121 repaints seem to have been similar, wider numerals without shading, here's 122 in the mid-1970s: And here's 123 with the same type of number in 1975, alongside 176 with the narrower sans-serif white numerals without shading: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570770699/ As yet I have not found any photos of 101, 121 or 201 class locos with orange shaded numbers on the front. There may have been a few - can anyone post a photo here to prove it? Later, the cab front numerals on all classes were standardised on the narrower sans-serif white numerals without shading, though there were a few odd exceptions with mismatched numbers.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that then. My study of hundreds of photos suggests otherwise.

Very briefly, the industrialisation of the Irish turf harvesting started in the mid-1920s, at Turraun, using German equipment on a fairly small scale. This used a narrow-gauge railway with 2 locos and 24 wagons. It proved uneconomic but continued in use for a decade or so. Lullymore was the next bog developed, by the Peat Fuel Company in the mid-1930s. They also constructed a briquette factory. Their equipment was mostly designed and made in GB. At that stage a lot of the machinery was still experimental, although some turned out to be very successful, such as the giant Garrett Disc Ditcher of 1935 (that behemoth on the front cover above). It's important to note that once you have started to develop a bog by cutting drains, there is a considerable lag time (several years) before the turf being dry enough to harvest, or indeed before the surface will support anything heavy like harvesting machinery. By 1939 the Peat Fuel Company was in financial trouble, having invested a huge amount of money and not really got to the stage of being able to harvest anything. Meanwhile, the Turf Development Board had been established in the mid-1930s by the Irish government; they had a much wider remit including marketing turf and encouraging hand-harvested turf. But the future was in machine-won turf and they visited Germany and Russia to learn how it was done. They started to develop the bog at Clonsast in 1936, using machinery supplied from Germany (ordered in a hurry as the war clouds were on the horizon). Although the machines arrived, there were many delays in commissioning it and production didn't start until 1939, and produced disappointing quantities that were uneconomic. The German machines weren't ideally suited to Irish conditions. The TDB acquired Turraun in 1935 and Lullymore in 1939, and also started to develop Glenties, which got its first Ruston in 1940. Other bogs where development was beginning in 1939 were Lyrecrumpane, Timahoe, Attymon and Carrigcannon. Some were more successful than others, but none of the bogs were economically successful at this stage. Whilst production did increase during the war, supply of machines and spare parts was near-impossible, and there were a lot of problems. In 1946, the TDB was reconstituted as the BnM and there was a large expansion in the late 1940s and 1950s. The early narrow-gauge locos used in the turf industry (pre-BnM) included: German Ruhrthaler diesels, one of which survives at Dromod. This was built around 1936 and later became LM11. Motor Rail 'Simplex' diesels, details not known, did not survive to receive LM numbers in 1954 Ruston & Hornsby diesels, one in 1939 and two in 1940 (later LM13/14/15) all for Clonsast, also another in 1940 (later LM16) for Glenties. Whitcomb diesel, built 1945 (later LM12) for Kilberry

That's actually very effective. I'd be tempted to try it on something thinner like 1mm MDF.

Mine has just arrived - looks really good! Many thanks @Rob R. I'll try it out later today.

In summary, the main objection is the cross-section. The LMS sides curve in more at the bottom than the GSWR ones. The LMS roof meets the sides at an angle, whereas the GSWR has a tight radius to the vertical. Illustrated below. This is the model cross-section, from a eBay listing: Compare to a zoomed-in crop of Ernie's photo: And this is the preserved first of a similar type, photo by Kieran Marshall: I can see the difference now you have pointed it out, but I'm not sure it's quite as bad as having the wrong number of wheels! Anyway, the objections were so strong that I'll forget that plan. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508911093/in/faves-50559291@N03/

Superb! lovely work there. A bit of improvisation from bits in stock is always very rewarding, and the result is excellent.

Yes, 4mm scale is small! I have a laser cutter but to do something this fine in card or thin ply would be impossibly flimsy. Hence why I'm looking at etching from thin metal, which is quite possible for something like this. I've always liked these gates but never had a drawing, so your contribution with this thread is very much appreciated. Thank you!

I do really hope that IRM will announce a 30t brake van! John's 20t brakes are superb but no longer readily available, the floor is wide open for the 30t variant!

Work in progress with the simple option, it needs some more black diamonds on the intersections and there's scope for better detail on the quarter-circles. I also need to think about hinges and catches. Dimensions of this gate are 40mm x 19mm in 4mm scale.

For an etch. It's far too fine to be punching out rivets - the metal would become badly distorted. The top and bottom of the gate are 2"x2" angle which is about 0.7mm, the diagonals are 1.25" x 0.375" strip which is about 0.4mm x 0.125mm. We can do that - my E class is etched in 0.25mm thickness nickel silver so a half-etch would be 0.125mm thick and a line thickness of 0.4mm is practicable - some of my grilles were a bit less than this. So the simple option is to ignore the rivets, in which case the gate could be done as a single-piece etch with the diagonals half-etched from one side or the other to give the overlapping appearance. The more complex option is to make the gate in two layers, again the diagonals would be half-etched but this would allow the rivets to be left proud as full thickness. One set of diagonals would be on one layer, the opposite diagonals would be on the other layer, and the top, bottom and verticals would be on both layers. I'd arrange it so that the two layers would be surrounded by a fret that folded, so the two layers would be folded onto each other and soldered or glued together while still attached to the fret (ensuring perfect alignment) and then separated from the fret and cleaned up. More complex, but you get the rivets and the layered detail of the quarter-circles in the corners, and there's also the ability to have the top and bottom rails visibly thicker than the diagonals as they should be. So, the conclusion is that it can be done by either method, one is a bit more complex to make and requires a bigger area of etch. If I was working in 7mm scale I'd definitely go for the 4-layer rivetted variant, but in 4mm scale I think maybe the simpler option is more practical (much as it pains me to simplify...)

Thanks. I think the Mainline/Bachmann LMS ones capture the style better, but the disadvantage is the lack of the corridor third. Though I think a cut'n'shut of bits from the brake third and/or composite would work. The GSWR did have some composites of this style too, but they weren't like the LMS composite so are probably harder to do.

Thanks - some nice stuff there, not often seen. Gypsum and ballast hoppers, plough vans, fertiliser, spoil and keg bogies. I was hoping there might be some cement bubbles but perhaps that was unrealistic! This is quite a good price for a sound-fitted A class; I was tempted but I have several As already: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/267179992632

Lovely drawing, and there's a scale along the bottom so I should be able to work out the true size. But I'd still be interested to know the dimensions of the other type if you get a chance - would be interesting to see whether they are the same. I'm sure a gambolling lamb could find its way through any fence or gate into the path of a train. I've certainly run over a few in my time. 4 sheep and a badger, which makes me an ace!

I have an idea for an etch in 4mm. Let me see how practical it is - the detail is rather fine but I have a cunning plan. There are several variants - are people fussy about which sort? I could potentially put a mix of different ones on an etch.

Seems there was more variation among these than I had imagined; the first one is the same as @Fran's friend's example: Gate by the old railway © Michael Dibb :: Geograph Ireland Branching off at Duleek A Thomas Telford sunburst gate, Treborth © Meirion cc-by-sa/2.0 :: Geograph Britain and Ireland

Selling like hot cakes toasties! I'm pleased there are some of the grain hoppers left over. You didn't happen to find any more of the black oil tanks, did you?

Thanks! But which of the Cork-Tralee services is a Cravens set these days? Guess I might be waiting a while for that to happen again, but it was fun while it lasted. Fond memories of a 141 flat out climbing up to Rathpeacon, or in earlier years an 001 trundling through the Kerry countryside! I recall I even had a 'mixed pair' on one Cork-Tralee service, which seemed quite unusual at the time.

Some IRM wagons have now reappeared in the AS warehouse, including: H vans Grain vans 4-wheel flat wagons Esso oil tanks Get them while they last.

I like that very much! It's upside-down in the photo; the extra bars to block smaller animals should be at the bottom. If you get a chance, could you measure the overall width and height and let us know? I'd also like to make a little one for my model railway.

That's a good idea - I wonder if that line will ever reopen? Excellent - hopefully we can meet and put a face to a name.

Wonderful - thanks! I'll take a look.

Thanks Jonathan, I appreciate there's a lot of complexity! Looking at the photos, this GSWR corridor third from the 1918-1925 period seems to be a reasonably consistent design made in large numbers (for Ireland - around 30 of them) and quite long-lived. Photos of 1294, 1300, 1310 and 1317 are virtually indistinguishable to my eye, so I think they were fairly consistent in shape and detail. They also have the advantage of being very similar in dimensions and style to some LMS coaches readily available in 4mm scale. What I'm wondering now is whether a pair of etched overlay sides exactly to the GSWR drawing might be a better option than cutting-and-shutting the Mainline/Bachmann coaches. But I think even just a simple repaint of a Bachmann composite would be fairly convincing, especially in black'n'tan livery which tends to hide slight discrepancies in the window layout. Put the footboards on and it becomes even more Irish. Having one of these in a rake that was otherwise more modern CIE stock (including Park Royals) would be entirely prototypical and would provide an interesting contrast.

Nice - thanks for sharing the photos. The green livery looks spot on - can you remember what shade of paint you used?