Mol_PMB

Suburban Railcars Railcars 2600 to 2647 were intended for main line use and delivery of these was between March 1952 and February 1954, contemporary with most of the trailers described to date. The next ten AEC railcars were destined for suburban use, and were delivered later in 1954 with an extra 4 seats in place of the toilet compartment but otherwise similar to the main-line cars. The last two (2658 and 2659) entered service on the Waterford & Tramore section in September 1954 with high-density bus seating throughout. 2658 retained the normal van area with steam heating boiler, but 2659 had its van space replaced with additional seating. Over the next 3 years, all the suburban cars were modified to this specification, with 78 or 80 seats in the boiler-fitted cars, and 94 or 96 seats in the others. Consequently, the next groups of carriages to be through-wired for use with the railcars were suburban carriages. The biggest group of these was the Park Royals, which will be described in the next post.

Driving Trailers 1906 and 1907 To complete the set of early 1950s CIE coaches through-wired as railcar trailers, we have these two rather special but enigmatic vehicles. A batch of 5 brake open thirds were built in 1953 and numbered 1904 to 1908. They were similar to the open standards 1356 to 1371 described in a previous post, but had only 5 bays of seats and a brake compartment, complete with side duckets. Unlike later brake vehicles, the double doors to the van area were curved and flush with the sides - later batches had flat doors which were either inset or proud. They had the traditional trussed underframe and GSR bogies. There has been a lot of discussion of these vehicles on the forum already, in this thread: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/3975-brake-standards-1904-1908/ Some time around 1955-1956, coaches 1906 and 1907 from this batch were modified as driving trailers to work with the AEC railcars. A driving cab was added to the brake end, which required removal of the guard's ducket and changes to the door and window arrangement on the driver's side. A windscreen was added in the end, along with a triangle of headlights. Most obviously, the bogies were replaced with the commonwealth type - giving a very unusual combination of a traditional trussed underframe with commonwealth bogies. The intention was that these driving trailers could be used cab-to-cab within a longer railcar train, allowing the train to be split en route, but retaining through access along the train before it split. They could also enable a 2-car set to operate with one power car and one driving trailer. It should be noted that there are some inconsistencies in published sources about which coaches were converted from the batch of 5. Pender & Richards say 2 coaches, 1907 and 1908. However, later photos of 1908 prove that this was not converted. BSGSV's post in the thread linked above says 2 coaches, 1906 and 1907. Photographic evidence indicates this to be correct. Colin Holliday's list says 1 coach, 1906 The CIE carriage register published in 1969 shows only 1906 as through-wired There are plenty of photos of 1907 with the bogie, cab, window and headlight modifications in the 1960s and early 1970s, but not formed in railcar sets. It appears that 1906 and 1907 were converted, but that 1907 later lost its wiring and control equipment, but retained the other vestiges of the conversion. 1907 was destroyed in an accident in 1974 and this photo shows the cab side window and door arrangement which replaced the ducket on one side. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527598229 Here's a couple of photos showing an intact one, earlier in life: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253223013 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306044 Note that the door position has also been moved compared to an unmodified one: These photos compare the other side, not much changed here apart from the bogies and headlight: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252109222/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52959572973 The only photo I've found of one of these actually in a railcar set is this lovely shot from Ernie, dated 8th June 1956. Here the carriage has its cab modifications but seems to be used a plain intermediate: There are several IRRS photos of 1907 with RPSI 184 or 186 around 1970, prior to 1907's destruction in an accident: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570456911 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569599852 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570654018 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511309423 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511309418 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307782 What these show is that 1907 had been converted to a driving trailer in the same way as 1906 (cab, headlights, commonwealth bogies etc), but by 1970 it had lost its headlights and therefore was no longer functional as a driving trailer. Other internal control equipment may have been stripped out too, but we can't see that in the photos. That would tally with the entry in the coaching stock register for 1969 which shows only 1906 (not 1907) wired for use with the diesel railcars.

Just to keep the suspense going, here's another crop of a nice prototype pic showing two variants of green livery on Park Royals; the pic is dated 1961. At the front of the train, a light green carriage - including green-painted sliding window ventilators, EdN waist line and post-1956 '2' class designations on the doors. Black ends with red dimension plates. Broadly this matches the decorated sample we've seen already - light green, black ends, painted window ventilators. The class designations should be easy enough to add with transfers. Fourth in the train, a darker green Park Royal - with sliding window ventilators in unpainted aluminium, catching the sunlight here. EdN waist line; originally this livery did not have '2' class designations on the doors. Green ends are hard to make out in this photo but are well proven in other photos of the dark green livery (see below). We had one of Ernie's photos upthread showing the original darker green livery when new in 1956. Below is another of Ernie's dated 1959 showing the dark green livery like the 4th vehicle in the train above. No '2' on the doors, unpainted window vents, green ends. By this time the silver underframe was looking very grimy! The next instalment of my AEC Railcar Trailers thread will include the Park Royals so here's another of Ernie's pics showing the dark green livery, almost as original but with the '2' class designations added: Waiting with baited breath to see the IRM painted samples, and wondering whether I need to order some more, or possibly change one of my existing orders...

I certainly will do if I get a chance. I’m trying to cram a lot in with Whitehead, Downpatrick and Cultra in the 3 days I have available, plus hopefully a few good pubs in the evenings.

Terrible caption on this slide but might be of interest of a colour view of the UTA narrow gauge. https://ebay.us/m/doPkfo And this green A class is something I’ve been resisting for a week or so. The AI description says it’s sound fitted but on quizzing the seller they haven’t been able to confirm this, it’s from a deceased estate and the seller only has DC to test it on. So it’s either good value if sound fitted, or overpriced if not. https://ebay.us/m/vnmtze I’ve decided to save my money for an IRM C class, hoping they’re on the way eventually!

O gauge MGWR coach kit: https://ebay.us/m/qIKpbb Looks like someone’s just started it and given up, but could be a bargain?

Looks great. It’s possible I can drop by that exhibition on Sunday afternoon if I get round Cultra quickly. I’m beginning to wish I had given myself an extra day in Belfast!

Just don’t tell anyone, or mention it on the internet…

Is that 3D print the CMAC one? Or from another source? It looks good in that pic - are you pleased with how it has turned out? Any chance of some more photos and a brief description of the work you have done to it?

Super work in lots of areas there! I particularly like the use of the choc block parts to provide an adjustable connection between the point tiebar and operating rod. You did well to persevere with the point rodding and it looks superb. I hope it’s not so fragile now it’s fixed down. I wonder whether there’s a brass equivalent, for next time? I’m looking forward to seeing this develop and it is inspiring me to make some progress on a layout myself.

Wonderful - thank you!

I would very much like to see more decorated samples in the two green livery variants. We’ve only seen one of the green liveries so far, and I gather that the colour has been tweaked since then.

BnM could still produce a fine old mess in the 1990s (my pic):

The IRCH vans are getting closer to completion - adding all the little details takes time: I bought some etched W-irons, sold as for 21mm gauge (and at a premium price), but sadly they turned out to be way too narrow - only suitable for 16.5mm gauge. I had to widen them which took several hours work. Never mind, they're done now and ready to fit. Each wagon will have one fixed and one rocking set. Still to do is the brake gear and I have various suitable parts from Wizard Models.

I found the set for £5.95 on ebay! Should keep me entertained for a few hours...

Many thanks for the tip, I’ll get a set of them and take a look.

Because at the time I did, no-one else had provided a useful reply and I thought that some of my links might be useful even if they weren't the full answer. At the very least it bumped the thread and DJD then responded. I apologise again.

Fascinating history and beautifully presented in the maps. Thank you for sharing!

I think this looks like a great idea. It could easily be compressed to a manageable size without losing the functionality. And loads of scope for modelling al those little details to bring the scene to life.

This is not my area of expertise. However, I know that there was a modification needed to the wiring in the A class to make some lightling functions work - I think that may have only affected the cab lights though? @Fowler4f knows more and may be able to advise? Also, is the function mapping on your new chip matched to the A class functions? It ought to be possible to re-map the functions on any/most chip types - again, not my area of expertise. You shouldn't have to buy an IRM chip. On the other hand, an IRM chip should come set up correctly in the first place, so it may be the easiest solution. But at present, only sound chips seem to be available for the A class: https://www.accurascale.com/collections/cie-a-class Sorry this isn't as helpful as it might be.

Thanks John, those are nice clear shots. I suspect these buffets had mostly ceased being used in railcar sets by the time the B4 bogies were fitted - I haven’t found any photos of B4-fitted examples in railcar sets. According to the list I’m working from, none of the side-corridor coaches on triangulated underframes and commonwealth bogies were through-wired to work with the railcars. It was only some of the older batch with conventional underframes. I do have plenty more types to cover in future posts. I’ll probably be looking at some of the suburban types next.

Hence why I asked for a verbal update at Derby - see previous post. I was also told that they will have a lot more Irish samples/models to see at the Dublin show, but there might be a bit of a wait until the next IRM new tooling announcement. I think the AS side of the business is very busy at present - must be all these people buying badgers

Agreed, I enjoyed my walk along the Fenit greenway because the bus service now provided from Tralee is 10 times better than the rail passenger service ever was - and that mostly ceased nearly 100 years ago! But the infrastructure for routes with future rail traffic potential should be protected for rail. Incidentally on the Fenit route I was surprised how users were really discouraged/prevented from leaving the route mid-way. I was hoping to stop off half-way to visit one of the village pubs/restaurants but the signage and fencing was so forbidding that I didn't. Is the local opposition to these greenways so great that they don't want the tourists' business?

CIE buffet cars 2419-2422 A further batch of 4 buffet cars followed in 1956. These had similar bodies to the previous group, but were mounted on triangulated underframes and commonwealth bogies. This 1960 photo by Roger Joanes shows a railcar and buffet car probably both in the lighter green introduced in the late 1950s: Other images of this small fleet in railcar formations are as follows: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305513 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306045 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305041 Diesel Dawn (Flanagan) p62 Diesel Dawn (Flanagan) p101 Distinctive features of these coaches' bodies are the same as described for the earlier buffet cars. However, the underframes adopted the new triangulated design. The welded trusses were set behind the solebar, with the battery boxes and some diagonal braces in front of them. Commonwealth bogies were fitted, and originally the underframes and bogies were painted silver. Even looking in the distance down the train, this extract from one of the NLI photos linked above shows a clear contrast between the older underframe and bogies of the nearer open third, and the new design of the buffet car beyond: It's worth noting here that while CIE built large numbers of carriages on the triangulated underframe with commonwealth bogies, not many of them were through-wired for railcar operation, and most of those were Park Royals. More to follow in due course...

CIE buffet cars 2405 to 2418 In 1953/4 CIE introduced a batch of buffet cars, intended to run with the new railcars and in loco-hauled trains. As well as the buffet counter they seated 39 passengers. All 14 vehicles were through-wired from new, and photos indicate that they commonly used with the railcars on longer-distance trains. They soon displaced the motley collection of GSWR and DSER catering cars which had been through-wired for the first few years of railcar operation. (I'll deal with those in a later post in this thread) The construction was very similar to the coaches described above: a conventional wooden-framed body clad with steel panels, on a conventional welded steel underframe riding on GSR-type bogies. The earliest photos showing them in service in railcar formations date from 1954. The IRRS Journal no.184 page 66 shows a typical railcar express formation of the period (5th September 1954), including one new buffet car which is clearly a lighter colour than the other carriages and railcars. This correlates with a statement by Kennedy (in the IRRS journal for June 1965, Issue No. 37) that these buffets were painted in an experimental lighter green livery. On the other hand, the buffet in this 1955 photo by Ernie seems to be the same colour as the other vehicles. Perhaps only a few were finished in the light green livery? Note that the buffet does not carry a snail or class designations. Here’s another in the darker green without snail, seen in colour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449371036 Later the fleet received the standard light green, and in this livery the toilet window was usually painted green rather than white, as seen here in 1961. They also gained a snail, but did not have a class designation on the doors: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419498281 That livery is also shown nicely in colour in IRRS Journal no.181 page 325. ‘Irish Standard Gauge Railways’ (Middlemass) page 59 also has a very clear photo of 2407 in the light green livery with snail. Finally they were painted in black and tan, as seen here in the mid-1960s. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511770454 However, by this time most long-distance services were loco-hauled and the railcars were increasingly used on secondary and suburban routes which did not require a catering service. The buffet cars were transferred to loco-hauled trains. There are some other photos of these coaches in railcar sets: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498712396 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498866628 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/51907327499 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511297176 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511798629 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252072952 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305183 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305580 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772699 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256773881 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53446886101 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/51981716040 Book references of photos showing these carriages in railcar sets are as follows: Rails around Dublin (Murray) p53 Railways in Ireland part 4: GS&W (Bairstow) p15 Railways in Ireland part 4: GS&W (Bairstow) p17 IRRS Journal no.61 p71 Railways in Ireland part 3: DSE/MGW etc (Bairstow) p37 Irish Railways 40 Years of Change (Boocock) p23 The Railways of the Republic of Ireland (Baker) p44 IRRS Journal no.182 p348 Irish Railways in Colour (Ferris) vol.2 p13 IRRS Journal no.185 p162 Distinctive features of these coaches are an underframe with welded trusses directly beneath the solebar, and some large vents on the roof. The bodysides are asymmetrical with different arrangements each side. From left to right, the kitchen side has a door, 3 large windows, a door, then a blank panel, 3 narrow frosted windows, 2 large windows and a door. The other side has a door, 5 large windows, a door, 3 large windows and a door. The right-hand full-size window is frosted/white, later painted green.