Mol_PMB

My next Working Timetable commences January 1985. There was still no regular passenger service but the freights have become a little more interesting with the addition of bulk cement to Athenry, the return of a rostered 141 turn, and it all runs in daylight. The Galway – Ennis bagged cement path is a little mysterious as it’s not clear what happens when it arrives at Ennis, or indeed whether it is laden (which is implied in the WTT because it doesn't say empty, but seems to be the wrong direction for a laden cement train). Perhaps it continues to Limerick combined with the liner? There are no occasions where more than one train is present. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in 1985 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Limerick – Mayo bagged cement path 06:27 06:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Athenry bulk cement path 07:27 07:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis Liner 08:30 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick light engine 08:45 SB Mon-Fri 141 Limerick – Mayo fertiliser path 10:37 10:37 NB As req’d 001 Athenry – Limerick empty cement path 12:49 12:49 SB As req’d 001 Galway – Ennis bagged cement path 14:01 SB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis light engine 15:20 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick Liner 15:45 SB Mon-Fri 141 Mayo – Limerick empty fertiliser/cement path 19:17 19:17 SB As req’d 001 Galway – Farranfore fertiliser path 19:29 19:29 SB As req’d 001 On Sundays, three paths for Knock Specials are provided; no traction is specified but I think these were usually a pair of baby GMs: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco South – Claremorris special passenger 09:45 09:45 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:38 10:38 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 11:37 11:37 NB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 19:28 19:28 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:23 20:23 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 21:15 21:15 SB As req’d

Moving forward to summer 1978 which is my next Working Timetable, the regular passenger service had been withdrawn although the line was still popular for special trains including pilgrimages to Knock, GAA and other sporting fixtures, etc. The pattern of freights had changed significantly – the loose-coupled freights had vanished except for a seasonal beet path, replaced with paths for pallet cement and fertiliser trains. There was a Dublin-Ennis Liner via Limerick which ran 5 days a week, otherwise it was just paths as required. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in summer 1978 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Dublin – Ennis Liner 01:22 NB Tues-Sat 001 Ennis – Dublin Liner 02:05 SB Tues-Sat 001 Mayo – Limerick empty cement path 03:39 03:39 SB As req’d 001 Beet Special (loose-coupled) 09:55 09:55 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Mayo bagged cement path 12:27 12:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Tuam/Galway bagged cement path 12:27 14:30 NB As req’d 001 Mayo/Galway – Cork empty fertiliser path 15:19 15:19 SB As req’d 001 Empty Beet Special (loose-coupled) 20:49 20:49 SB As req’d 001 Tuam/Galway – Limerick empty cement path 23:22 23:22 SB As req’d 001 Cork – West fertiliser path 23:17 23:27 NB As req’d 001 This is rather less interesting than 1975. Only one daily service, the rest are paths as required. A solid diet of 001s, and most of the action is in the middle of the night. The only time when two trains might be present at the same time is at 23:20. However, on Sundays, four paths for Knock Specials are provided; no traction is specified but I think these were usually a pair of baby GMs: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco South – Claremorris special passenger 09:45 09:45 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:22 10:22 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:59 10:59 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 11:35 11:35 NB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 19:28 19:28 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:05 20:05 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:43 20:43 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 21:29 21:29 SB As req’d I do wish the forum would stop automatically merging replies when I'm trying to space them out to tell a story in chapters. And then making it difficult to edit the merged result. anyway...

I'd originally thought of building a smallish shunting layout because it would be easily portable and fit in various possible spaces, but I already have an O gauge 'inglenook' style layout and to be honest it gets very little use (although it looks quite pretty). So now I'm thinking that for the Irish option I'd perhaps rather watch trains passing through the scenery. I do enjoy scenic modelling. This is perhaps also influenced by the reliability of a 21mm gauge shunting layout and the choice of couplings in 4mm scale that enable effective shunting. I am mulling over ideas for a built-in layout in the loft space. This would require some work on the loft first, which has been part of the general plan for the house for a while. Perhaps a layout plan would spur me on to fitting out the loft? The sketch below shows the plan view of the loft-space and an end elevation. The basic space is 3.6m (12') wide and 3.75m (12'6") long, extending a further 0.25m between the chimneys. This alcove would favour a traverser-style fiddle yard which could be 1.8m (6') long. It looks like it's quite feasible to have a circuit 3.3m (11') across in each direction, with 1m radius curves. Obviously it could be more complex and with a more natural trackplan, but it gives an idea of what's feasible: The space is too small for a worthwhile 7mm scale layout (which is my main scale for non-Irish stuff), which is probably why it has remained unused. However, I think it looks quite reasonable for 4mm scale. The fiddle yard length would allow realistic length Irish passenger trains of 5 coaches (Cravens/Park Royal etc); alternatively freights of 8 bogies or nearly 20 traditional 4-wheelers. Potentially up to 8 tracks on the traverser would give scope for a couple of passenger trains and a good mix of freights. I think I could fit in a station with passing loop and simple goods facilities on any of the 3 sides not occupied by the fiddle yard, although the ends of the station would have to bend round the curves. The remainder of the layout could just be single track through scenery, allowing a view of the whole train. Having spent a lot of my childhood visits to Ireland in and around Ennis, I'm wondering if a representation of that station and yard (in early 1980s state) could be squeezed in. Station on the left side of the plan, north end road bridge at the top, the south end throat would have to curve round in the bottom left corner. I think it would need only 5 or 6 points. Scenery-wise, Clare Abbey bottom right and the Fergus bridge middle right? Some trains would run through, others would stop and shunt before continuing in the same direction, while some would come from Limerick direction, terminate at Ennis and later return to the fiddle yard. Of course there are a load of practical issues to deal with including fitting out the loft and the temperature fluctuations. Operations at Ennis I am mulling over ideas for a layout based on Ennis in the 1970s/1980s, so I thought I’d have a look at the traffic and operations there and record my notes here in case anyone else might be interested. This is based primarily on the CIE Working Timetables in my collection, though in due course I will try and cross-reference them with photos. I’ll look at several different dates over a 15-year period. My earliest CIE Working Timetable is dated November 1975. This was a significant edition for rail services in the west of Ireland because the ‘Burma Road’ from Claremorris to Sligo closed at the start of that month, as did the Loughrea branch. The pattern of freight traffic was changing under the “Rail Plan 80” with loose-coupled vans being superseded by containerised general freight and special wagons for bulk freight. Wagonload freight was concentrated at regional hubs, with freight facilities at many smaller stations being closed. Ennis was a winner here, becoming a regional hub with a new goods store and container gantry. 1975 is also a significant year for me as it was the first time I visited Ennis, albeit as an unborn foetus. It was to become a familiar place with family holidays there every year until the early 1990s. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in winter 1975 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Limerick – Claremorris loose-coupled goods 05:51 06:15 NB Tues-Sat 001 Limerick – Ennis loose-coupled goods 07:58 09:05* NB Mon-Sat 141 Cork – Galway/Tuam/west fertiliser path 08:25 08:25 NB As req’d 001 Ennis – Limerick light engine 08:50 SB Mon-Sat 141 Athenry – Limerick light engine 11:41* 11:55* SB As req’d 141 Limerick – Ennis passenger mail 11:52 NB Mon-Sat 141 Ennis – Limerick passenger mail 12:40 SB Mon-Sat 141 Limerick – Ballina passenger 14:42 14:45 NB Mon-Sat 141 Claremorris – Limerick loose-coupled goods 16:15 17:30 SB Mon-Fri 001 Galway/Tuam/west – Cork empty fertiliser path 16:37 16:37 SB As req’d 001 Ballina – Limerick passenger 17:08 17:11 SB Mon-Sat 141 * Path for this train to continue to Athenry if required, and LE return It’s hardly Clapham Junction, but there are some busy moments; there are potentially two trains present at 08:25, 11:52, 16:37 and 17:08. Some trains run though, some pause and shunt, and others terminate, run round and return. Most of the action is in daylight. A mix of freight and passenger, and 001s and 141s. Quite interesting. No Sunday trains are shown.

Indeed. I'm sure some of those details could be re-used in a Mk1 BGSV

I'd originally thought of a smallish shunting layout because it would be easily portable and fit in various possible spaces, but I already have an O gauge 'inglenook' style layout and to be honest it gets very little use (although it looks quite pretty). So now I'm thinking that for the Irish option I'd perhaps rather watch trains passing through the scenery. I do enjoy scenic modelling. This is perhaps also influenced by the reliability of a 21mm gauge shunting layout and the choice of couplings in 4mm scale that enable effective shunting. I am mulling over ideas for a built-in layout in the loft space. This would require some work on the loft first, which has been part of the general plan for the house for a while. Perhaps a layout plan would spur me on to fitting out the loft? The sketch below shows the plan view of the loft-space and an end elevation. The basic space is 3.6m (12') wide and 3.75m (12'6") long, extending a further 0.25m between the chimneys. This alcove would favour a traverser-style fiddle yard which could be 1.8m (6') long. It looks like it's quite feasible to have a circuit 3.3m (11') across in each direction, with 1m radius curves. Obviously it could be more complex and with a more natural trackplan, but it gives an idea of what's feasible: The space is too small for a worthwhile 7mm scale layout (which is my main scale for non-Irish stuff), which is probably why it has remained unused. However, I think it looks quite reasonable for 4mm scale. The fiddle yard length would allow realistic length Irish passenger trains of 5 coaches (Cravens/Park Royal etc); alternatively freights of 8 bogies or nearly 20 traditional 4-wheelers. Potentially up to 8 tracks on the traverser would give scope for a couple of passenger trains and a good mix of freights. I think I could fit in a station with passing loop and simple goods facilities on any of the 3 sides not occupied by the fiddle yard, although the ends of the station would have to bend round the curves. The remainder of the layout could just be single track through scenery, allowing a view of the whole train. Having spent a lot of my childhood visits to Ireland in and around Ennis, I'm wondering if a representation of that station and yard (in early 1980s state) could be squeezed in. Station on the left side of the plan, north end road bridge at the top, the south end throat would have to curve round in the bottom left corner. I think it would need only 5 or 6 points. Scenery-wise, Clare Abbey bottom right and the Fergus bridge middle right? Some trains would run through, others would stop and shunt before continuing in the same direction, while some would come from Limerick direction, terminate at Ennis and later return to the fiddle yard. Of course there are a load of practical issues to deal with including fitting out the loft and the temperature fluctuations.

Possibly something to interest the 7mm scale modellers, a GNR brake van (built) and an MGWR coach kit (though I'd advise against reading the AI-enhanced descriptions!): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356426644080 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356426676260 Whilst for those interested in old railway documents, some rulebooks and a gazeteer, and an early W&LR invoice: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186870491560 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/146311358151

As mentioned, the cattle wagon is progressing well too. The parts are very nicely cast and went together well, with a little care to make sure everything was square. I used a modified Parkside PA06 chassis instead of that provided in the kit - it was easy to regauge to 21mm and had clasp brakes, so I've built a vac-fitted cattle wagon. It is currently finished in clean ex-works brown livery, but yet to be lettered, and it will have some light weathering. There are a few more details still to add, including door bangers (ready to go on) and brake handwheels (to be stolen from an IRM H van later this month) As yet I haven't glued the roof on, hopefully it will seat down a little better when glued. I don't intend to load it. With these vans, the GSR grain hopper, 3 corrugated opens, and some H vans on the way, I have the potential for a 15-wagon 1970s CIE freight train. I need to think about somewhere to run it (and also make a decision on couplings, which I've been putting off!)

Very nice work! I agree 6' carriage width seems too narrow - even the old Ffestiniog coaches are wider that that, and the FR is a 2' gauge line with a famously tight loading gauge. I like the developing shellfish business - I hope the journey time to the big city isn't so long that they start to whiff a bit!

Super! Very inspiring.

I've got to the stage where a number of wagon projects are nearly finished, waiting on some custom transfer artwork that I need to complete and get printed. Then I'm going to do a big batch of weathering and will suddenly have a train of a dozen wagons which will be far too long for my photo plank! And that's before the IRM H vans arrive. I think I need a new display cabinet! My childhood memories of Irish railways are in the mid-1980s, pre-tippex. But I find the 1970s period a little more interesting and varied to model, with the transition from traditional freight trains to fully-fitted liners. For the older goods stock, I'm aiming for a roughly 50/50 mix of grey and brown livery wagons, with the idea that I can represent slightly different eras in the 1970s by adjusting the proportion of grey and brown wagons in the train. My memories of CIE brake vans are all of 30t vans in brown livery (and I have a suspicion/hope that IRM may have one of those up their sleeve), but I wanted a grey brake van as well, and the JM Design 20 ton brake van kit was perfect for my needs. A lovely model even straight out of the box, with some extra details added by myself: handrails, lamp irons, metal buffer heads and coupling hooks, extra reinforcing strips at the base of the sides, and some more details around the stove both inside and out. This model is now physically complete and lettered, but not yet weathered. I also need to add glazing. The livery is slightly unusual but prototypical for this van. The wasp-stripe transfer for the ducket wasn't quite big enough for the way my prototype was painted, so I had to carefully paint the yellow and black to extend the stripes both up and down. Hopefully the imperfections will be disguised by the weathering! https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559 Not far behind the brake van in the build process is a Provincial CIE cattle wagon. Watch this space...

This link to a photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr is one I saw a few months ago and then forgot where I'd seen it. I've found it again so I'll link it here. It's one of those wonderful transition-era trains with some bogie container flats at the front, 4-wheel container flats in the middle, and a rabble of old goods vans on the back. Jonathan dates this as 1979 (slightly uncertainly). However, the date can't be far off as the bogie flats with Y33 bogies were only introduced in 1978, and the traditional goods vans vanished in the late 1970s. To me, the item of most interest here is the 1970s Manchester Liners container, broadly of this type as available from C=Rail: https://shop.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=272 Having studied the Manchester Liners containers in detail, it's always nice to see them in unexpected places!

Very nice - something for everyone there. In the second photo, that incredibly shoddy silver A class is a sight to behold! Has anyone on forum weathered a model into this sort of condition, I wonder? In the third photo, A58R carried black and shallow tan livery from 1971 to 1974, but was repainted into supertrain livery by 1975. So I'd suggest this is early 1970s.

Nice work! It’s a great location to model in any era, loads of character in the architecture and quite tightly enclosed by the buildings. I assume you have seen the photos of the works on the NLI archive website? Mostly 1960s and quite a few interior shots as well as the exterior. Mol

Detailing up this brake van is rather fun, it helps that it's a great model to start with. Eventually I'd like a 30-tonner as well - IRM seem to keep ruling them out, which is a pity. Maybe they'll surprise us?

Wonderful, many thanks. I'll use that interior scheme which is much the same as used on British Rail goods brakes too. Must have been the practical choice! My chosen prototype has some unusual features on the (grey) external livery though - the area above and below the ducket is grey rather than black, and the roundel is tan. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559

Was there a standard interior colour scheme for these brake vans? With the nicely detailed handbrake, vacuum setter and stove I feel I ought to paint the inside, though to be honest it's not very visible from the outside. The only interior photos I've found are on this page, which suggests a dark floor and pale walls and ceiling, red handbrake wheel on black column, heatproof panels behind the stove but perhaps also pale: https://www.abandonedni.com/single-post/mind-the-gap I'm idly wondering about an interior light too, which might also provide some illumination in the side lamps. Is it worth it? Probably not.

I'm just detailing up my kit example, it's an excellent model but I decided to detail it with handrails, lamp irons, an extra strip at the base of the sides, and a finer chimney for the stove. Now, I know these vans were built in several batches by the GSR and CIE, and there are detail differences between batches. But I'm trying to work out whether I should fit roof vents. This is the prototype I'm modelling, but the photo has a very messy background and it's hard to determine the roof details: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559 This is a GSR one and it clearly has 2 torpedo vents in the roof as well as the stove chimney (Ernie photo on Flickr): This is also a GSR one and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof as well as the stove chimney (NLI photo on Flickr). The vent position appears to be similar to the image above, but only the vent further from the chimney is fitted, and it is oriented laterally rather than longitudinally: This is an earlier CIE-built van seen later in life in 1974 and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof (same position as above) as well as the stove chimney (IRRS photo on Flickr): https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570450936 Another 1970s photo, this time from Ernie, shows another early CIE-built van and it appears to have a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo, but not the same type of vent: Probably around 1970 photo, this from the IRRS archive, shows a later CIE-built van and I think we can just see the top of a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527285226 On the other hand, there are plenty of photos of vans which definitely have no roof vents, such as this from Brian Flannigan which is a GSR-built example: Or indeed this in the IRRS Archive which is one of the later CIE batch: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509010781 Knowing how goods guards spent much of their life in a struggle to keep warm, and newspapers were an essential accessory to fold up and plug any draughts, I can't imagine that roof vents were seen as an advantage by the users of these vans. On the other hand, there would be some benefit of avoiding carbon monoxide poisoning from the stove. Maybe the brake vans were all built with them but they were removed from most vans over time? Has anyone got any more info on the roof vents? There are of course a whole host of other detail differences between the vans, either from build or subsequent modification, but I won't get carried away with those now. Cheers, Mol

Now that is an excellent observation, John! Because B+I's Lancashire Flats were 24' long: I should have read all the information I posted a bit more carefully! The fleet list above is from 1971, the same year as these photos with the 'framework'.

Lovely! The butcher's van in the background is making me hungry - perhaps a fry will be in order tomorrow morning?

Gosh, is this weathering supposed to add value? Noting that Rails themselves have brand new, upgraded design Murphy 141s for £40 less... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196924966977 They might have got almost that grubby in the IE era but not in CIE days.

Great persistence and a lovely result with that rivetting tool. Looks much better than the NWSL version I bought 20 years ago and struggled with.

The Templot track is based on a chair that plugs into a rectangular slot in the sleeper. In reality the chair is quite a substantial casting and this gives it strength in its own right in model form, so it can be a separate component. With spiked flat bottom rail there isn't any form of chair, and often no baseplate (at the most, a small thin one). It would be more difficult to create a robust rail fastening as a separate component to represent the spikes without it becoming too heavy and visually intrusive. My experiment in 4mm scale used laser-cut sleeper bases with spike holes pre-'drilled' with the laser, and Peco track pins as the spikes. They're still a bit heavy though, but not too bad from normal viewing distance once weathered in a bit: My method is also very time-consuming to lay as it needs hundreds of pins, so I'm interested to see how the 3D printed versions work out. I might decide I ought to be using bullhead track anyway, it depends on which prototype I end up going for. Mol

Now, whilst on the subject of early containers, I would like to talk about the odd frameworks that are seen fitted to some 4-wheel container wagons in the early 1970s. I'd better state up front that this is conjecture based on photos, and I'd welcome any facts to prove or disprove my thoughts. I'm sure many forum members will be familiar with this image of a B+I liner train, which is included in at least 3 editions of Jane's Freight Containers as well as several other publications from the early 1970s. In this photo, alternate wagons have a strange oversize framework instead of a container: It's worth noting that there are other photos of B+I and Bell liner trains from the same period that don't have these things, just containers, like these three different trains pictured in the nli archive dated 1971: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307812 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000308267 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307819 Now, here's a link to a very interesting photo by Jonathan Allen on Flickr, which shows a mixed freight heading south from Lisburn around 1972. The third and fourth vehicles are 4-wheel container flats, both carrying early Bell containers. One is normal, and the other has one of the strange frameworks with the container loaded inside it. There is negligible difference between the heights of the containers, suggesting that the framework doesn't have much thickness at floor level under the container: However, the fact that a container can be loaded inside the framework, apparently with a bit of space around it, shows that the framework must be significantly larger in footprint than the nominal 20'x8' of the wagon floor. Being longer than the wagon floor probably meant that the couldn't be loaded on consecutive wagons without fouling each other, hence the alternate marshalling of the train in the first photo. So now we come to this excellent photo uploaded by Wrenneire in this thread https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8148-freight-containers-irish-oo-gauge-40ft-or-20-ft/page/3/, which shows the frameworks more clearly: The first thing to note is that the frameworks carry the wagon number; the nearer one is 25904, one of the later examples of the 25436 series. This strongly suggests that they are attached to the wagon, rather than being a 'swapbody' or other intermodal container which would be numbered independently of the wagon (* see below). It's also interesting that there is something loaded inside the framework, being craned in or out. The load appears to be a 'Lancashire Flat', laden with crates and sheeted over with an orange and black sheet. Very similar to the one on the adjacent road vehicle. So, as with the train at Lisburn, the framework is intended to have a container loaded inside it. So what were they for? Why not just load the containers directly on the wagons, which would have been perfectly viable? I suggest that they were a security measure, intended to prevent theft of the containers' contents, or other tampering. The framework would prevent access to any container loaded inside it, because the doors couldn't be opened (whether side or end door). I think they were deliberately made to signficantly overhang the ends of the wagons, so that they would also prevent the end doors of containers on adjacent wagons being opened sufficiently to access the contents. They would also provide some additional protection to sheeted loads on Lancashire Flats (as in Wrenneire's photo) just by making it more difficult to access and handle the loads. Whatever they were, they seem to have been quite short-lived, perhaps an unsuccessful experiment? Any more info welcome! * Note: the CIE swapbodies had their own numbers; the only sensible approach as they were designed to be swapped between wagons, as shown by these photos from Brian Flannigan on Flickr: Keg swapbody number 340, in 1971: Pallet swapbody, number only partially visible but ends in 53, in 1971:

Now, I mentioned earlier that the CIE container asset listings in the annual reports changed in 1974, becoming less detailed. The categories were reduced to: Rail: Covered Rail: Lancashire Flat Rail: Other Road: Covered Road: Lancashire Flat There was no split between ISO and pre-ISO, and the 'other' category swept up all the less common types. The distribution is shown in the graph below, through to the split of CIE in 1987 and a little beyond. The 1973 totals for rail and road are also shown to provide a comparison with the previous graphs: Between 1973 and 1974 there was negligible change in the totals for road and rail, so it is likely that the 1974 fleet was much the same as for 1973, just categorised differently. The overall trends from 1974 onwards are: The road container fleet gradually reduced each year until it reached zero in 1990. It seems unlikely that there were many new containers built for the road fleet in this period. The rail container fleet increased significantly in the 1974-1979 period, and then gradually declined slightly. Among the rail containers, the 'covered' category increased by 250% from 487 to a peak of 1703. Among the rail containers, the 'other' category doubled from 198 to a peak of 420. 'Lancashire Flats' gradually decreased throughout the period. The only Jane's I have for this period is the 1982 edition. That doesn't have a detailed fleet listing for CIE but states: "A total of 2035 containers and 323 flats are owned" [total 2358]. Comparing with the data in the CIE annual report for 1982, and combining road and rail, the totals are 259 Lancashire Flats and 2148 for everything else [total 2405], which isn't too far off considering that the counts may represent different dates and some of the 'others' may have been types of flat. So from 1974 onwards we would expect to see large increases in the numbers of CIE containers, and in the variety of types, but the statistical data from the annual reports and from Jane's don't give us any specifics. We'll have to work it out from photos and I haven't started that study yet! As a taster, this wonderful photo linked from Jonathan Allen on Flickr is dated 1977 and shows a long train of CIE containers: From the front, we have: Side door container, 8'6" high (new type) Side door container, 8'0" high (old type mentioned in previous posts) Bulk Freight container, 8'0" high (new type) Side door container, 8'6" high (new type) Tiltainer, 8'6" high (mentioned in previous posts) Side door container, 8'0" high (old type mentioned in previous posts) Side door container, 8'6" high (new type) Side door container, 8'6" high (new type) Double Side door container, 8'6" high (new type) Side door container, 8'6" high (new type) Side door container, 8'0" high (old type mentioned in previous posts) Tiltainer, 8'6" high (mentioned in previous posts) Open-top half-height container (possibly under the umbrella of the 'Lancashire Flat' group) Side door container, 8'6" high (new type) Tiltainer, 8'6" high (mentioned in previous posts) Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)

Sorry, I missed this excellent photo of a tiltainer from Wrenneire in this thread: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8148-freight-containers-irish-oo-gauge-40ft-or-20-ft/page/3/ This does confirm that the sheet and the container numbers matched, and that they were in a 1400 series.