Mol_PMB

I seem to have spent all day burning my fingers, inhaling phosphoric acid fumes, and ingesting toxic metal dust. I had forgotten how long it takes to detail up the rooves of these 6-wheel coaches, but I'm finally just about there. I've slightly simplified the gas piping and I've had to make up a few bits that weren't clear on the photos, but I think these are satisfyingly 'busy' which appeals to me. And very often we see models from above so I think it's worth putting the effort in. There's a bit more cleaning up to do, but I'll leave that for a day or two. Perhaps I will finish the assembly of these two coaches this weekend, and get them into primer.

Shall we be charitable and consider it a C&L 4-4-0T?

Roof construction in progress for the full brake and the sleeping car: Somehow I drew the holes in the sleeping car roof about 0.5mm too small and I'm having to enlarge them slightly to fit in the water tanks. Careless of me. Perhaps I double-counted the kerf allowance. Once the main parts are done there will be lots of fiddly gas piping and castings to add.

From Ernie, 2509 in the light green with black roof as you describe, seen in 1960: You'll be wanting an RB3 next! Photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr:

I have stumbled across some more information which has driven me to revisit the section on the Park Royals used with railcars on the Waterford and Tramore. I don't think any of this is new, but I need to correct an error that I had made in interpreting the data. There were two Park Royals on the W&T, 1407 and 1408. One was a driving trailer. Several sources including my original source for this thread, an appendix in the book 'Diesel Dawn', list 1407 as the driving trailer and I have been guilty of perpetuating the error in this thread. BSGSV gets it right in the thread linked below, 1407 was the intermediate and 1408 was the driving trailer: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/3566-park-royal-driving-trailers/#findComment-60291 Here's a link to a photo in the NLI collection showing driving trailer 1408 during its period of disuse, with the number legible (shown on the cropped version below): https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306739 There is a nice colour photo in 'Irish Railways in the 1950s and 1960s' (McCormack) page 125 showing a W+T train in 1957 formed of all 5 'modern' vehicles - 3 AEC railcars and 2 Park Royals.

2509 was painted light green for a short while around that time. I’d take that as a guide. It didn’t stay that colour for long, being repainted in BnT.

Inspired by these: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508917406 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511597820 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511332133 There were others with slightly different variations of panelling, vents etc. I chose one without a birdcage lookout, but the roof does have small skylights each end.

I've not seen one of those in CIE livery before! It looks the part though, somewhere between railbus 2508 and railcar 2509.

There’s nothing more exciting than getting stuck in to something new. This is why my workbench is littered with half-finished projects. But I can’t help myself! Sides for the full brake completed: I did the underframe a couple of weeks ago, so roof and ends still to do. Not much interior needed in this van.

Excitement as the postie has delivered a shiny new etch this morning!

That's partly why I put the build dates in my list. The corridor composite was built in 1954. It has the simplified lining style of that time, and lacks a snail, which was also normal for the early 1950s. So I think it's carrying its as-built livery which would have been applied before the light green was introduced. The main line Park Royal would have been built in 1955. In contrast, the 8-bay open second type was built from 1958 after the light green livery was introduced, and it also has a snail typical of this period. I know you are absolutely sure of the fact that there were only two colours of green, but there were definitely more than two styles of green livery (in terms of lining, lettering and snails) and I think there is a clear logical progression through the years that most vehicles conform to (there will always be a few exceptions). For me, the photographic evidence (and some of the written evidence) would suggest that there were three shades of green but there are so many complicating factors in that discussion. I have been collecting images of CIE trains which show multiple green shades in the same image and lighting conditions, to inform my research, and some day I'll write a thread about this. Ideally I'd like to study some more 1950s written material (CIE documents and IRRS/ IRN journals etc) but I'm struggling to find those.

Here's a lovely colour photo of a passenger train in the landscape around 1960: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449694369 The liveries are a mix of silver, light green and dark green, my interpretation being: Silver A class Light green tin heating van Dark green corridor composite (2137-2161 series of 1954, I think) Dark green Park Royal (1419-1428 main line type, note frosted toilet window) Light green 8-bay open second (1449-1496 series of 1958-60, I think) Silver tin luggage van Vac-fitted goods van So it looks like the main line Park Royal models can be realistically produced in Dark Green, Silver, Light Green, as well as several variants of BnT.

A pity there isn't a date on the silver Park Royal photo. I agree with you that it was most likely silver from new. I reiterate that a silver Park Royal is not 'unpainted'. If it was unpainted it would be rusty steel, not shiny aluminium. Here are some under construction at Inchicore showing the steel bodyshells painted in primer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251537558 The finish of the brand new silver Park Royal is obviously different from the highly-reflective aluminium finish of the tin van bodyshells when new (as shown in your photo at the top of the thread). The tin van underframes were silver-painted steel, and have the same flatter finish seen on the silver Park Royal. I do think its worth looking at the dates a bit more closely, because the vast majority of the Park Royals entered service before anything in the silver/aluminium livery. The dreadful weathering of silver/aluminium stock would not have been obvious at the time that the Park Royals were being built. Suburban Park Royals: 1955 (the earliest photo I've found, under construction, is dated 23 Oct 1954) Main Line Park Royals: 1956 (the earliest photo I've found, brand new in green livery on trial, is dated 22 Oct 1955) Stock entering service in silver/aluminium livery: A Class: 27 Sept 1955 to 9 Jan 1957 3101-3141 Heating vans: 1955-1956 1429-1443 Standards: 1956 [number series follows on from the Park Royals] B101 Class: 9 April 1956 to 23 Dec 1957 G601 Class: 1 June 1956 to 11 Mar 1957 2162-2171 Composites: 1957 [there's a photo of a brand new one in use on 26 Mar 1957] 2700-2765 Luggage vans: 1957 C Class: 4 March 1957 to 22 Jan 1958 (231/234 entered service in green in Jan 1958 but 232/233 were silver on 22 Jan 1958) 2962-2971 4w TPOs: 1957 E401 Class: 10 July 1957 to 21 Mar 1958 2972-2978 TPOs: 1958 1444-1448 Standards: 1958 [these may have been green] So, at the time the main line Park Royals were being built in autumn 1955, the first silver A class were just arriving, and the first of the heating vans were being built to run with them. The heating vans would have entered service alongside the A class as they were not needed with steam locos. The earliest photo I've found of a main line Park Royal, dated 22 Oct 1955, shows it alongside absolutely pristine brand new heating vans: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507054260 All the other stock in the silver/aluminium livery came after the main line Park Royals. CIE persisted with the unpainted aluminium finish for new stock until 1958 (2 years after the main line Park Royals entered service), and I suspect this change was linked to the retirement of Bulleid on 30th May 1958. 'Laminate' stock continued to be built, but it was painted light green. It's quite possible that the silver-painted Park Royal was the first CIE passenger coach in the silver livery (other than 'Silver Princess' in the previous decade).

if anyone’s looking for some layout coaches this could be a good bargain. https://ebay.us/m/ANOjEK

Indeed. There has not yet been a ready-to-run Irish TPO, as far as I'm aware. And the only kits were made in fairly small numbers and are no longer readily available. So you may struggle to find an unwanted one out there. The forthcoming IRM Park Royal coach has the right underframe and bogies for a CIE bogie TPO, but the body is entirely different.

I keep looking at the picture of the shiny silver Park Royal. Perhaps I have some magpie blood in me? It has outward-opening doors (the bottom of the door is flush with the bottom of the bodyside, the top corners are square, and the hinges are visible). In contrast, the green main-line Park Royal in the October 1955 photo shows inward-opening doors as originally fitted to the suburban Park Royals (the bottom of the door is higher up to clear the internal floor, the top corners are radiused, no hinges are visible): https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651 Here's a photo from Ernie of a suburban Park Royal showing the inward-opening door very clearly: Fry's model of the silver one represents inward-opening doors. @jhb171achill Do we have a date for the silver Park Royal photo?

Thanks again to JHB for sharing this photo, linked from his thread. A very interesting example of 'Tail Traffic' - none of the main-line Park Royals were listed as through-wired for railcar working. But note that the traction for this move, just visible on the left, is an AEC railcar:

There were only 10 of the main line Park Royals, numbers 1419 to 1428. This IRRS photo shows a green one, brand new in October 1955. It's definitely a main line type, with the steps and water pipes on the ends, and the frosted window: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506631651 This may well be the same vehicle on the same occasion: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507054260 It's almost impossible to tell the shade of green from these images though. I can't read the number but it may be legible on the original image. This IRRS photo dated July 1960 shows a main line Park Royal in green, from the side opposite the toilet compartment (i.e. window not frosted) but you can still see that steps and water filler pipes on the end. Further evidence of this being a main line type is the view through the carriage vestibule and saloon door - this would be blocked by a seat back on a suburban coach. It has unpainted sliding window frames so this is probably its original paint job: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527645299 A main line Park Royal in light green livery with black ends was included in the formation of an IRRS railtour to Wicklow Murrough on 7th July 1962, appearing in quite a lot of colour photos of which this is one of the clearest and shows the end pipework and frosted windows: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256744741 This coach has green sliding window frames (which were originally unpainted) so it is likely that it has been repainted in light green. It appears that the windows opposite the toilets were altered to frosted at some stage. A main line Park Royal in light green livery was also used for another railtour to Ardnacrusha on 1st September 1962, again appearing in lots of IRRS photos along with these by Ernie. As can be seen here, there were two main line Park Royals in this rake - the other in BnT livery. Note the frosted windows and pipes to the toilet tanks: That's all I've got so far for main line Park Royals in green, but I'm less than half-way through my image trawl. There may be more to find.

Many thanks. Mine is not so clean any more! Even Fry's model at Malahide is a bit weathered. What I'm really interested in is whether there was one of these in full size. Is there a photo of a silver Park Royal in the collection? Note that the model is not numbered as a Park Royal - 1430 was one of the laminates that came directly after the Park Royals and were indeed in silver finish. A silver Park Royal would have had to be painted silver, rather than just left in unpainted aluminium. Only last night I was trawling the photo archives for early photos of 'main line' Park Royals, and I've found quite a few more pictures of them, all in green, some when almost brand new. Was one painted silver as a trial, or is it a myth / misunderstanding relating to the laminates of identical layout that followed straight after the Park Royals? Edit: so there was! Thanks for adding the image to the post above!

Thanks. My approach this time was to make perforated paper stencils using the laser cutter, and then spray-paint the rivets in brown.

Plough vans: https://ebay.us/m/lHWKuQ two sets of ballast hoppers from the same seller too https://ebay.us/m/TxeEPx https://ebay.us/m/DEaMmI first come first served!

Weathering of the A class body has begun, with various brush-applied details based on the study of many photos of the Crossley-engined A class. When this has fully dried I will do some more spraying, mostly on the roof. I have also regauged the bogies using Accurascale Deltic wheels, and the sideframes are awaiting weathering. An A class is really too big for my layout (in reality, they were prohibited from the Quartertown Mill branch) but it will have to do until IRM produce a C class! Meanwhile I have continued work on the tin van, including a more subtle (perhaps too subtle this time) representation of the rivets. Also the EdN-coloured lettering that is prototypically hard to read on a silver background. This will need a lot more weathering too. Finally I was tipped off about a supplier still with reasonable stocks of Markits bits, and I stocked up on a lot of bits and pieces that might come in useful one day. Parts like these are getting more and more difficult to find. https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/92/4mm-scale-accessories-by-markits/

Better get their sound decoders re-programmed...

I've given A42 a new identity as A11. As you can see there have been some other livery adjustments including black roof, front handrails and wipers, correct for this loco: Cruel closeup of the snail, number and lining transfers. I'm pleased with how these have come out: The next step is a coat of varnish and then some weathering.

I note that some of the Park Royals are now showing as sold out on the Accurascale website. I was hoping for the long-promised update before placing another order, but FOMO has got the better of me.