Mol_PMB

I've tried applying some Railtec rivets to one side of the tin van. I'm not yet quite convinced this is an improvement, partly because they seem a bit too bold, but also because it's extremely difficult to get them in a perfectly spaced grid. It looks OK side-on but looking along the vehicle the variation is more apparent. I'll put another coat of primer on them and see how it looks. I might sand them all off again...

Wonderful - many thanks!

Yes Please! Which side of they world are they on at present?

Fran, Many thanks for the open and detailed message which certainly helps us understand the position. My apologies if some of my earlier comments were unhelpful - on occasion I was getting a feeling of ‘buy this product you don’t want, or we’ll never produce the one you do want’. Perhaps I’m in a minority on this forum in recently returning to Irish modelling, and having missed the opportunity to buy some of these models first time round I now welcome the reruns and the secondhand market. I suppose the way to grow the market is with more people like me who haven’t already bought too much. For what it’s worth, with a bit of patience I have been able to pick up almost all the older models I was looking for on the secondhand market, although often at a slightly premium price. Cement bubbles and the 141s from the other supplier you mention were an exception and the reruns there were much appreciated by me and I’ve bought several of each. I would definitely support new releases with the C class being my highest priority. Please keep communicating. It really does help. Sometimes when it all goes quiet we get worried. Cheers, Mol

Best drink that load quick before they escort you to the weighbridge!

Is there a dedicated fund to support this project? I'd be happy to donate towards it.

A mix of Irish items this week: RPSI Mk2s: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236600845401 IRM A3r: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/406638473677 Lima O gauge CIE 'Sundries' van (not 100% prototypical!): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/297968818867 Job lot of IRRS journals: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/376890242277

A lovely Hunslet photo for sale on eBay at present, just in case you don't fancy putting Mk2 coaches behind them: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0dEAAeSwyqhpdxhC/s-l1600.jpg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/227189400223 The Courtaulds wagon and the bogie flat piled high with sleepers are also of interest.

Many thanks for pointing out that image which I had not studied. There's an odd pinkish colour cast on that photo though, I'd be wary of judging colours from it and I guess there are plenty of different interpretations possible. I'm not convinced they're red or brown although I agree they are a much darker colour than the 1960s light grey typically used on wagons. The two grain hoppers appear to have some small lettering to the bottom right of their sides - in the place where CIE would typically put a number. There's no sign of the Ranks lettering or indeed any other lettering or logos, so they could just as easily be GSR/CIE wagons. Perhaps they started as GSR dark grey, got extremely rusty and then just the number has been re-stencilled? There are a couple of CIE bulk grain vans in the train as well. The traffic could be associated with Ranks at Clara but equally Ballisodare or elsewhere. Has anyone seen a colour photo of the Ranks wagons in red livery and lettering?

Ni! Ni! Ni!

Every day’s a schoolday. That’s better than Peccadillo or Piccalilli!

I wonder whether they were made of cor-ten alloy steel, which was developed in the USA in the 1930 for railroad hopper cars. It has found much wider usage today in civil engineering especially bridges. The idea of cor-ten is that it does not need painting at all, it’s a bit like aluminium in that it forms a self-protecting layer of oxide. Unlike aluminium though, that oxide looks rusty.

I’d have 4 or 5 C class (silver, plain green, black with roundel, supertrain and NIR) a couple of pairs of AECs, and at least 1 80-class. Hoping the C class aren’t too far in the future as I have a layout that needs them!

Wow. Superb scenery and it looks like an interesting layout to operate. i look forward to seeing more developments.

Also, didn’t 112 nearly become 089 at one stage?

And to go with the Park Royals…

I agree. The spring and axlebox are still there - if the wheelset had been removed then they would be missing too. But I do see what you mean. It hasn’t been converted to a 4-wheeler as some other GSWR 6-wheelers were. Note the truss replacing the middle wheelset here:

This is one of those occasions where a photo crops up just too late to inform the modelling! Here's an old print I picked up on eBay last week, showing a GSWR lavatory composite, in the mid-1960s after withdrawal: This is by the far the best late-era photo I've found. I suspect all these vehicles received slightly different modifications and this one has some matchboarding on the ends and a sideways-mounted torpedo ventilator on the lavatory compartment. Livery-wise it appears to be light green with no waist line, but with both 1 and 2 class designations. If I'd had this picture a month ago, I'd have built a model of this one. Never mind...

We saw upthread two of several photos showing 'Sambo' shunting at Inchicore with a green H van behind. I've recently acquired a print of the same scene from a different angle, but clearly on the same occasion and I'm confident it's the same green H van behind. Although the painted number is cropped off, the number on the worksplate is legible as 18824. That's within the expected range and adds another known number for a green H van.

I bought the slide, which had a very bad pink colour-cast and had deteriorated somewhat. I've done my best to recover the image and here's a cropped version showing the grain vans which were the main item of interest for me. The date is 1964. From the original slide we can read the numbers of both CIE grain vans. Both are from the original batch converted in 1956. 23911 has been freshly repainted in grey with white lettering and includes 'BULK GRAIN WAGON' branding. However, 23903 is in rather tatty original paint which has faded. This does not carry the 'BULK GRAIN WAGON' branding and I have seen other early photos of the first batch of wagons where this lettering is absent. We saw earlier that the first two wagons converted, 23901 and 23902, had their doors removed and the space plated over. With this photo of 23903 that retains its doors, I think it's reasonable to assume that it was just the first two wagons that had the doors removed. Also visible is a Ranks hopper, freshly repainted in grey. It's hard to judge but the underframe looks a darker colour, and some other photos indicate that grey Ranks wagons had black underframes.

Many thanks. That was my thought too. It makes perfect sense for the fairs. But how does it apply to the number of wagons required?

I've put the question about livestock traffic in a separate thread:

I recently acquired a copy of a weekly notice for December 1959 and I have been trying to understand the pages relating to livestock fairs and the special traffic arrangements for them. We started this discussion on my modelling thread but I think it's probably better as a Question in its own right. Here are the previous comments from @Horsetan and @Galteemore: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/17455-voiding-the-warranty-mols-experiments-in-21mm-gauge/page/14/#findComment-275537 https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/17455-voiding-the-warranty-mols-experiments-in-21mm-gauge/page/14/#findComment-275542 Here are the 6 pages relating to livestock traffic: Each day, there are tables listing: Special trains to be run in connection with the fairs Wagons to be previously supplied to various stations for the fairs (presumably empties to be positioned ready for loading) List of CIE road transport and CIE staff to attend each fair Question 1. The fairs are often listed with a code of capital letters after the placename. Or there may be a more descriptive phrase. These include: C. P. C.S. C.P. C.S.P. C.S.H. C.S.P.H. Sales Mart Fat Stock Sale C.S.H. & Sales Cattle Sales In this context, what do the letters C., S., P., H. mean? Question 2. The 'Wagons to be previously supplied' also use letter codes to describe the wagon types needed, together with the quantity required. These include: K's. K.N.V's. C. P. C.S. C.P. C.S.P. C.S.H. C.S.P.H. S.H. My understanding is that K is the code for a traditional (short, unfitted) cattle wagon, KN is the code for the longer CIE cattle wagons, and I assume that KNV is a vacuum-braked KN. But... In this context, what do the letters C., S., P., H. mean?

Many thanks Leslie, that’s very good to know the information survives. I must try to find an opportunity to visit the IRRS library. I expect it will need a special visit to Ireland as the opening hours seem very limited.

This is a really good question I haven’t quite resolved. They seem to be used in two ways - one to describe a fair, and also in listing the number of wagons required. In the first case it would make sense if they meant Cattle Sheep Pigs Horses. In the second case that doesn’t make sense at all. Where listing the numbers of wagons needed, K is a traditional small cattle wagon, KN is the larger CIE cattle wagon, and I assume KNV is a vacuum-fitted KN. Note that the document also covers the use of CIE road transport. Open to other ideas! I’ll get the scanner out tomorrow and scan the livestock pages so we have more examples to decode.