Mol_PMB

See also...

Tomgue in cheek there were 94 CrossLeys on CIE... The slide is in the Mason Photographic Collection in the NLI archive. The glass plates are described as follows: In Collection: Mason Photographic Collection Description: Lantern slides are organised under box numbers M1-52. M1- M10 Irish Industries; M11- M13 Ireland At Work; M14- M15 Dublin City and County; M16 Box A; M17 Box B; M18 Box 3; M19 Box D; M20 Box E; M21 Box F; M22 Box G; M23 Box H; M24 Box I; M25 Box J; M26 Dublin Scenes; M27 Christchurch; M28 The Normans (includes handlist); M29 St Patrick's; M30 St Patrick's (includes handlist); M31 St Patrick's; M32 Irish Manuscripts and Their Cases; M33 Irish Croziers and Shrines; M34- M37 Antrim; M38 Carlow/Cavan; M39- M40 Clare; M41 (Mason T.) Boyne and Tara (includes handlist); M42- M48 Irish History; M49- M50 Isle of Man; M51- M52 Foreign/ Unidentified and unnumbered. Also in his collection, this image shows a Dublin-registered canal barge laden with turf: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000519034 There is also this image of turf stacks in the Bog of Allen: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000519037 Given that part of his collection is categorised 'Irish Industries' I wouldn't completely discount the railway being in Ireland. The arrangement of the trolleypole matches that on the electric locos illustrated on the Annaghmore Turf Railway, in the little book mentioned by @Galteemore. I bought a copy last week following that recommendation! The bodywork of the loco is different, but the book says that was built locally so it may post-date the NLI photo.

Continuing the theme of lesser-known locos at Fenit, here is 'Erin', early in life when it worked at Waterford. A photo in the NLI archive. https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000036650 It is recorded that 'Erin', later GSR 300, worked at Fenit in the late 1920s, but was then scrapped in 1930. Sister 'Shamrock' GSR 299 lasted much longer. I also found a photo of GSR 100 at Fenit in Martin Bairstow's book 'Railways in Ireland Part 4: GS&WR' page 89. Plenty of choice then if I fancy an 0-6-0 tank engine!

In the NLI archive, alloy-skinned containers being built at Inchicore in 1959: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304518 These are a very distinctive shape and I've never seen them on a railway wagon. Perhaps normally used by the road transport division? This one on the other hand is a more traditional shape and material, and nicely painted in CIE 2-tone green livery and on a flat wagon at Drogheda: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305422 Could that be Shipping London chalked on the side? Also of note is that it's on a flat wagon (rather than the more usual open wagon), indeed LB flat wagon number 23415 of the type produced by IRM. So you CAN prototypically put a container on an LB flat!

Here's another green H van, even in shades of grey, in the NLI photo archive in 1961: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305518 By enhancing the image I'm fairly confident that the number is 18776, which is within the expected number series. As with other green vans, it has a black underframe and ends (clearly darker than the green sides), and packing behind the buffers.

I'll now look at the MGWR vans to the IRCH wood-framed design. Some, perhaps all, of these were built as 'convertible', i.e. the centre part of the roof above the doors was missing, and designed to be covered by a tarpaulin. They had special roping eyes on the side uprights so that the tarpaulin could be held taut. Some may have been modified with normal roofs later. Here are the few photos I've found: 3318M at Kenmare in 1958, from 'Irish Railways in Colour: a second glance' (Ferris): Ferbane in 1958, wagon number not legible, from 'Lost Lines Ireland' (Welbourn): From the NLI archive, here's 3286M at Liffey Junction in 1939, a useful view of the roof. This is part of a much larger image that will interest wagon nerds: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303458 Another NLI Archive image, this time dated 1950 at Tuam, shows antother convertible with a conventional roofed van behind. Neither number is visible. https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303499 Here's a very nice NLI view of two ex-MGWR 'convertibles' at Ferbane (again) in 1959 - numbers 3261M and perhaps 3262M. The latter has been re-clad in sheet material replacing or overlaying the planks. A GSWR 'Big Boy' is visible beyond. https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304064 Some of these MGWR vans survived into the 1970s, and there's an excellent IRRS photo of 3259M at Limerick in 1970, newly overhauled and repainted in red-brown livery with roundel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511621949 This number falls within the series of MGWR 'convertibles' but 3259M has a normal full roof and I'd guess that it was modified at some stage in its life, losing the roof hatch. The identifiable numbers of the MGWR IRCH vans are as follows, and these suggest they were numbered in a block of at least 60 vehicles: 3259M, 3261M, 3262M, 3286M, 3318M I have a couple of books on the MGWR but they don't give specific details of these vans. The MGWR wagon statistics quoted in Ernie Shepherd's book have some odd gaps in the table for covered vans in the 1920s. One of these would provide an interesting variation in a train of newer CIE vans.

I have asked the question on the Industrial Railway Society egroup. Someone there will know for sure.

I did wonder where it was, and failed to find any references online other than coming back to this photo. The NLI photo archive does include some photos from abroad (including a few Swiss trains, for example) so it might not be Ireland.

I stumbled across this interesting photo on the NLI archive, showing an electric loco hauling a turf train: Context: Cross Ley Peat Plant: No 15 Turf. One figure, motor with wagons of turf arriving from bog.

I’m still working my way through my books and other online sources such as the nli archive. Happily I am finding some more good photos including three more MGWR vans of this type. I’ll have reviewed over 40,000 photos by the time I’m done. Even Ernie’s most recent uploads are adding to the dataset - many thanks! I’ll aim to do an MGWR update this week. I’m quite well placed for the GSR double-skinned vans too. Hopefully I can get some more GNR info soon.

I expressed a strong interest in a Bredin 3rd from SSM a couple of months back, along with a couple of other items. Still waiting to hear back when they are available. But I'm in no rush. Given that they're not yet listed as in transit, the IRM Park Royals will have to be put on a fast boat to get here in 2025 Q2 as well...

Yes, my plans for the vans have changed a bit since IRM indicated that they'll be producing Palvans. I'll still do one of the fitted H-palvans though. I must get back to the H vans soon - that one pictured above is still in pieces. Once it's back together as 21mm gauge I've got some green paint ready for it.

The location is Ballybrophy, and gives an interesting indication of the state of the Dublin-Cork main line in the mid-1980s. Even the section that has been relayed has a woeful lack of ballast shoulder.

You’re very kind - thanks. I do cheat a bit by using some CAD and designing etch and transfer artwork, then getting them made. There are lots of other very gifted modellers on here too, some produce wonderful unique models hewn from raw materials, for which I have particular respect! Thanks David! It doesn’t look quite so pretty on the inside; my design principles are to try and hide the solder inside where possible. I do like soldered construction, it’s enjoyable to do and produces a strong and long-lived model with crisp detail. And with the right tools and materials it’s not difficult at all.

Depends which loco you buy. There should definitely be treats with this one:

These vans were based on a GNR design, so I ought to start with the GNR vans. But they're also the most complex and I'm still hoping that the IRRS will respond to my request to buy a scan of the GNR wagon diagram book, which will hopefully give me some more information on these. So I'll start with the GSR. Information on these is also sparse but is unlikely to get better! The GSR followed the GSWR system of allocating wagon numbers in blocks according to type. Based on legible numbers in photos published in books and online, the following numbers are known for GSR vans of this type: 157##, 15832, 15903, 15958, 15987, 16165, 16222, 16238, 16290. It's likely that these formed a continuous number series of several hundred vehicles; they are generally common in photos. The older GSWR steel-framed vans had numbers up to at least 15762, and the bulk grain hoppers started at 16400, so these IRCH wood-framed vans probably filled most of the intervening series. I'll link some of the better photos of these that I've found so far. Note that you'll need to be an IRRS member to see those in the irishrailwayarchive; thanks to Ernie, Roger and Brian for making theirs available to all: Here's an earlier photo in GSR livery, 16165: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507984162 A partial view in GSR livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509299965 16222 in early CIE livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508861551 More examples in the 1950s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500839161 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53501264990 The lowest-numbered example I've found, 157##, frustratingly the end of the number is cropped off: 16238: A nice pair in 1964: On the GNR main line but this appears to be a GSR-built van in the 15### series: An excellent view of 16290: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648564 Partial detail view of of 15987 at the brewery: Nice view of 15958: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255280358 15903 as seen already, roundel livery in 1971: Another unidentified van hiding in the background, included here because it illustrates one in the post-1970 livery, in 1971; though I can't be sure this is a GSR van: These vans often appear in photos in books but rarely with legible numbers, an exception is 15832 in 'Steaming in Three Centuries' by Pryce, McAllister. I hope this is of interest. I'll look at the MGWR vans next, then GNR, and then some of the variants. The GSR also had a double-skinned variant (built later than the ones shown above, and in a higher number series) and I'll look at those after I've dealt with the standard ones.

In the early 1920s, the Irish Railway Clearing House (IRCH) published drawings for 'standard' designs of goods vans and high-sided open wagons, which henceforth would be the preferred designs used by many Irish railways. The designs were published in 1924, but had been under development for some years. Whilst this move was broadly contemporary with the British RCH revision of wagon designs in 1923, the Irish designs were quite different in dimensions, constructional details and appearance. They appear to have been based on what was considered 'best practice' by the Irish railways at the time, rather than to import design features from GB. Hardly surprising given the political atmosphere of those years! However, there was provision to use GB standard components where these might be more economic than non-standard parts. A couple of years ago, @jhb171achill was kind enough to post the IRCH drawings as published in 1924, and these are immensely helpful: A fair number of wagons had been built broadly to these designs as early as 1920, possibly earlier, and then formed the basis of the IRCH design recommendations. So we do find IRCH-type wagons built by or for the GSR constituents. The IRCH designs covered 4 main wagon types: Goods van, wooden framed Goods van, steel framed Open wagon, wooden framed Open wagon, steel framed The underframe designs could also be used for a wider range of wagon types if required. Over time, variants of these designs evolved to suit particular needs. In this thread I am going to illustrate the wooden framed goods vans. These were based on an earlier GNR design, and were built by (or for) the GNR, GSR and MGWR, with several variants. Some remained in use into the 1970s and were painted in CIE red-brown livery. As far as I can tell, this design was not used by the other Irish companies - the GSWR and later CIE preferred the steel-framed van design and the DSER, BCDR, NCC etc went their own way. This photo by Brian Flannigan on Flickr is a superb clear illustration of the standard design, in this case a GSR-built van: Key spotting features of the design include: Wooden underframe, 9'6" wheelbase, W irons and oil axleboxes with tall rectangular covers Horizontally planked body, the same outside width as the solebars Vertically planked doors, with reinforcing strips top and bottom Vertical wooden stanchions The outer side panels are broader than the inner side panels Basic size and shape are the same as the H van (on the left) Jackdaws perched on the roof are non-mandatory Leslie has produced a kit of the GNR variant of this design, although I'm not sure whether these are still available. more to follow...

E407 starting to look the part, but still plenty of detailing to do! I must remember that I need to order another set of motor, gears and wheels too.

Indeed. It was particularly the IRCH design with the flatter roof that I had been searching for. There can't have been many of them - they're much harder to find than green H vans or GSR grain hoppers for example (though perhaps slightly less obvious in photos too). I fancy modelling several of these IRCH wooden-framed vans with detail differences - a GNR vac fitted variant, an MGWR convertible, a normal GSR van, and a double-skinned GSR van.

This time, I have decided to sail on the Birkenhead - Belfast service, and stay in Belfast. I'll be arriving Friday morning and leaving Monday morning, so hopefully time for one day at Cultra, one at Whitehead, and one at Downpatrick, plus a bit of train travel. No 111+Gatwicks or 80 class to enjoy these days, but Grand Central and the 4000s will be new for me.

There are plenty of photos of ex-MGWR 0-6-0T 560 at Fenit, mainly because it hauled a railtour there, full of gricers with cameras. There are also a good number of photos of 560 at Tralee, shunting wagons, and 560 is mentioned as the regular steam loco on the Fenit branch in the late 1950s and early 1960s. I'd found no mention of other members of the class. Whilst trawling my books for wagon photos, I've just stumbled across this photo of 559 at Fenit in 1960, along with a rather nice old brake van. While 560 was modified for the W&T with an enlarged cab and narrower footsteps, 559 retained its original cab and footsteps: The photo appears in 'Irish Railways in Colour - a second glance' (Ferris) and is credited to Des Fitzgerald.

This snippet intrigued me, and I have been looking out for them whilst trawling through photos online and in books. I've finally found one - in 'Irish Railways in Colour - a second glance. On page 38, credited to the Midland Publishing Colection, and dated 1958, here is 3318M, an IRCH 'convertible' van: It's in early CIE dark grey livery with eau-de-nil snail and numbering. The ropes are tied to special eyes on the uprights, which are absent on the equivalent vans with full roofs. For comparison, here's another similar MGWR van 3259M with a full roof: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511621949 This normal full-roofed variant of the IRCH wooden-framed goods van was used by the GNR, GSR and MGWR. The GSWR preferred the steel-frame version, which was also adopted by CIE prior to the H vans, but I've found no evidence of other railways adopting the IRCH van designs.

Some serious discounts there - including on Accurascale 88DS and Dapol 08's. Anyone fancy trying a 7mm scale D class conversion? Anyone looking for a J15? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135866574295

Super - some excellent viewpoints there that really capture the atmosphere of the layout. Great work by both modeller and photographer!

I still have to commute on the 150s - their underfloor-engined equivalents. I'm afraid I can't get dewy-eyed over 450s (or 150s), but at least they were better than Pacers. The diesel locos are of much more interest, as are the other exhibits and rolling stock. I've never been to Downpatrick before. It looks like there's a reasonable bus service from Belfast?