Mol_PMB

The B101 looks interesting. Is that the Studio Scale Models or the Silver Fox variant?

The PW department does seem to have painted some vehicles in a bauxitey red in the 'snail' era, including the van you have identified. In the same lifting train in 1960 there was also a 2-plank dropside in this livery, seen fairly well in these two images: Here's a closeup of the van. All these from Ernie on Flickr. In the IRRS archive the photo of 24103 under repair in 1969 shows it partly in this colour (but mostly fresh wood unpainted). The same wagon was photographed again in 1972 and had clearly been outshopped in bright red with roundel.

When I’m home from work I can post links to the photos I found. Note, they’re only visible to IRRS members so not all forum members will be able to see them.

I found this thread while searching to see if there was already any information on the PWD red livery (I didn't find anything). I appreciate this might not be directly relevant to your specifically narrow gauge question but it does fit the title of the thread. Anyway, in 'Irish Railways Today' published in 1967, the paragraph about Ballast Wagons reads: "The 1949 batch of 50 wagons have conventional steel frames, while the timber-framed wagons are conversions from cattle wagons. They are all finished in the red livery of the Permanent Way Dept." So, red, not grey. What sort of red? Well now I have joined the IRRS and have access to their photo archive, I know the answer. In the mid 1960s, the PWD painted their wagons bright red, like a loco bufferbeam. And unusually, it was only the body sides and ends that were red, the underframes appear to be dark grey or black. There was a white CIE roundel on the body as well as PWD and the number. Photos show dated late 1960s and early 1970s that this livery was certainly applied to: 2-plank dropsides 24054, 24076, 24078 (all from the steel-framed 1949 batch 24051-24100 as mentioned above) 1-plank 6-wheel dropsides 24103 (from the batch 24102 to 24112) One of the 24401 series with 2-plank ends but no sides fitted (this batch 24401 to 24450 were converted from cattle wagons as mentioned above) 2-plank dropside 24514 (this batch 24451 to 24515 were converted from cattle wagons as mentioned above) Not all PWD vehicles were painted red, of course. 1971 photos show that ballast plough brake 8452 was all over brown with roundel, while its mate 65M was tatty dark grey with snail, and 8167N was clean pale grey with roundel. The pre-CIE ballast hoppers between them were shades of rust and grey. (By 1975 the old plough brakes were all brown.) The 24401 and 24451 series wagons were introduced in 1964 and described as red in the book published in 1967, so they were probably painted red at the time of conversion in 1964. I wonder how long the red wagons lasted, and whether the livery was applied to any other types of PWD vehicle? Has anyone modelled a red wagon?

Not much progress on the plank itself today, but I've started propagating some more bushes. The dark green ones on the left will be more gorse,and will have the yellow flowers added as before. The small buff ones in the middle will represent some dead bits of gorse and will fill some gaps in and around the 'living' ones. The other green ones on the right will have some green flock leaves added, to represent some other sorts of bush. I've got a busy few days at work coming up, but hopefully I'll get these finished and planted later next week.

This sounds like a great plan, and it's good to set down some clear goals. I'm excited to see how this develops. Heavy duty trackbed construction is a good idea for a more permanent layout - you can use things like concrete lintels and fenceposts laid flat to give a strong and flat trackbed. If you're going to feature water (and I would recommend it, I really enjoyed making my garden pond and watching it develop) then this needs to be planned at an early stage and you might do well to get most of the heavy digging done before the tracklaying.

I'm sorry, it's too late! I only bought 3 corrugated wagons, and I've now converted all of them. I didn't take a side-by-side photo, the best I can offer is this one from earlier in the thread: However, if you can be patient, I have increased my H van order to 6 wagons, so I'll have plenty of them to show comparisons. Having now trawled through the wagons in the IRRS archive, I now think there are a total of 6 buffer types used on the triangulated wagon underframes: Small buffers with two ribs each side (this is the type fitted by IRM) Small buffers with one rib each side Small buffers with two ribs each side, on spacer block (green vans only) Small buffers with one rib each side, on spacer block (green vans only) Large buffers (this is the type I'm approximating with the Hornby loco buffers) Very long large buffers with step on top The one at Maam Cross has the second-largest type. (thanks for the pics BTW) I think some wagons were built with the first, second and fifth types, the others were later modifications. I plan to modify two of the H vans to former green vans with the buffer spacers, one van with the normal body type (in brown) and one of a Palvan type (in grey), as I have found evidence that some survived into those liveries. It would be great if IRM could produce some spare bits! At the moment I am working on weathering the three corrugated opens, but there's a lot more to do yet.

Sadly it's very rare to see an Alligator box here in Manchester these days. Plenty of those shocking pink ONEs though. I do own one of these though!

I do love a MOL container. Got my name all over it

Skills can be leant with practice, and over time you can build up a collection of tools and equipment too. When I first started modelling Irish railways I wasn’t skilled enough, but over time I’ve developed my skills. It can be very satisfying! Let me know if you would be interested in more details of how I’ve done anything shown here

Thanks! It's a tiny layout so it's easy to make good progress. It turns out that I didn't make enough gorse bushes. I'll have to cultivate some more!

I was able to line up and refit the old buffers fairly well. I fitted the guides first and then put in the sprung heads. On one of them the sprung head tends to stick in when compressed, but the others are all fine. I'm reasonably happy with the result. I'm considering changing the brake gear on this wagon, to the alternative 4-shoe type fitted to some of the corrugated wagons. But to do that I'll need some parts from the H van underframes which won't be here for a while. So for now it can keep the standard brakes. I then tackled the third wagon, and managed to salvage all the old buffers and replace them with the larger Hornby ones, the same process I used on the first wagon except that I now have a stock of spare IRM buffers for future conversions. Here are the three wagons together on the photo plank. Tomorrow when I have daylight again, I'll make a start on the weathering of these three wagons.

I've now got access to the IRRS photo archive and while I cannot post any photos here, they have enabled me to spot something I had missed before. Apart from the colour, there was another difference with the green vans. They had their buffers spaced away from the headstocks by a few inches. This was to suit the screw couplings that were fitted, which are longer than normal 3-link couplings. The spacers look more complex than a simple block, and may have included some extra resilience. This is very clear on the IRRS photo of three of the 'pallet van' door versions (including 18828) but can also be seen on the green van partly hidded by Sambo here: Normal vac braked H vans had instanter couplings and the buffers mounted directly on the headstock.

This photo also from Ernie shows a rake of 3 with the Y-shaped protrusions (plus a 4th in the shed), and a taller container of some sort too: From Jonathan Allen, 3 of the early non-ISO 20' keg cages. Only the middle one is on a 25436 series flat, I have yet to positively identify the other flat wagons here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49750786666 Again from Jonathan Allen, an overhead view of the non-ISO 20' keg cages: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/44785081805

Now, the first post dealt with the half-height 20' containers with ISO fittings, but they were preceded by a non-ISO type, during the transition from the old wooden containers to the standardised ones. ISO standards for dimensions, strength and corner fittings were only developed in the mid 1960s and several organisations (including BR Freightliner) initially used non-standard fittings. CIE did too, they were different again. Here are a couple of images of the first type of 20' half-height container. Note the lack of ISO corner fittings, and an internal numbering system rather than the ISO international standard. From Brian Flannigan, the Y-shaped protrusions on this would enable stacking: From Ernie, this one's lacking the Ys: The 25436-25982 series wagons were built in 1966 to carry these containers, and other pre-ISO 20' boxes. They mostly had plain bearings, and had a solid floor with non-ISO corner restraints. The solebars looked very 'busy' because there were trays for storing chains, and protruding chain eyes. These were used to secure a variety of non-standard containers. There's one more hiding behind a corrugated wagon in this photo from Pete Robins. Like the adjacent cages, it's loaded with kegs. It might be worth considering these early keg cages in a subsequent post.

Here are some detail photos of these unusual half-height open top ISO containers, mostly dumped late in life. They include a selection of legible serial numbers. Using a selection of Jonathan Allen photos from Flickr, we can see them in service. This one has a CIE sheet cover lashed over it, it looks like the sheet is specially made for this container type. Just teasing us on the edge of the photo is another one of a slightly different type: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/52050027229 Look closely, and there's one of these containers at Adelaide with a Guinness tank inside it: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51749282528 Here's a couple of them in a short liner at Claremorris: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/50706358862 The one in this train at Moira is also sheeted: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/52899057237

Nice model! At least one of the containers in the background of these Jonathan Allen photos has a legible number panel - CIEU 060369 3 IRL 2208 8 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51769520243 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51769522113 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51768451412/in/album-72177720295407867

A nice closeup side view of the headlights on 156, in this photo from Jonathan Allen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/46038979472/in/album-72177720295641846 I also found a photo of 160 so fitted. So at least the following 7 locos: 002, 154, 155, 156, 158, 159, 160.

Excellent work - it's always frustrating to pull apart things that were 'finished' but I'm sure it will be worth it for the improved reliability.

I agree. If you look at my second photo in the first post of the thread you can also see the lagging there, where a quarter of the outer cladding is missing. Originally, they seem to have been intended for tar and bitumen, which would have been loaded hot. On the sixth photo on my first post, just under the wording 'no naked flame' I think those two pipe fittings would have connected to a steam-heating coil within the tank. So if the train took too long to reach its destination and the tar 'set', you could liquify it again with steam.

I made a start on the second corrugated wagon tonight, and experimented to see if I could remove the buffers without destroying them, so that I could re-use them but positioned at the correct spacing. After a few false starts I think I am getting somewhere with this. This is the technique I used. First, use a tiny jewellers' screwdriver to push the buffer head out from the rear. If you have enough hands you can pull on the other end too. When it comes out, try not to lose the buffer head or the tiny spring. Then insert a piece of 2mm diameter tube or rod into the front of the buffer guide. Wiggle it around gently, and hopefully the buffer guide will come loose from the headstock: I then added some plastic strip to the outer edge of the moulded buffer base, and when that was stuck well I sanded down the faces. I marked the new holes (25mm centres) and drilled them. However, there was quite a recess where the old buffer holes were, so I inserted some 1mm plastic rod with a dab of filler round it. I'm waiting for that to set before I sand it down flush. The back of the buffers will need to be smoothed off too, before I glue them back on. If I can make this work, then it should also work on the H vans and I might be tempted to order some more!

The ballast stuck well, and so this afternoon I gave the track a light airbrushing to blend in the colours. Then I set to work with the static grass machine. I started with some patches of dark green, the same as I used on the gorse bushes, and the bushes themselves will be planted in these areas so the under-layer of dark green gives them a bit more depth. Then I covered almost all the rest in a paler green grass, leaving just a few gaps where I'll put some other type of bush or bramble. This now needs the glue to set overnight before I hoover off the excess and start applying localised additions of different coloured grass and flock. Anyway, it's starting to look the part now that it's not entirely brown!

Ah, many thanks John. I had got the impression from this thread that you had ceased production, and the website is down too. https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/16213-last-orders/ Are your models 21mm-friendly? What do you still have available or to order?

Nearest I've found so far for your coal containers, they appear to come in several variants and different liveries! https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51699006747 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51699802461

A nice rake of six cut-down wagons, with one unmodified one as well, in this 1979 photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/50768030252 Most have had a repaint in NIR pale grey, but a couple are still in bauxite.