Mol_PMB

Grey and yellow B135, black and tan carriages, silver 4w TPO: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53446885371/ I still haven't found a picture of a CIE-built TPO in green, other than in preservation. Undoubtedly some of the older TPOs carried green.

Here's another one of those old bogie flat wagons, also ex-MGWR I think, seen in 1971 but there's a similar one in the 1980s photo of the weedkiller train. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570896890/in/album-72177720315253667/ Note that the number quoted in the caption, 2618M, is the number of the ancient goods van adjacent, not the bogie flat. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570657363/in/album-72177720315253667 Another view of the big 12-wheeler, was this the GSR transformer truck or something else? (not the turf burner chassis, not the Bretland tracklayer chassis) https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570895655 And another view of the bogie well wagon, in revenue service: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570769984 I think most of the older ballast hoppers disappeared in the 1970s replaced by the CIE vac-braked ones introduced that decade - here's a GNR example and its matching plough van: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569593052 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570450071

This one is still in use as a TPO in 1968: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570446741 Whereas this one in 1971 seems to have been 'borrowed' for other purposes: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570644023 I think the latter was a marketing initiative; I vaguely recall seeing some IRRS footage of it at Youghal.

I think the answer is the MGWR bogie rail wagons 3401M to 3407M, which were introduced in the early 1920s and appear to have survived into the early 1980s. The HMRS holds drawings of these: https://hmrs.org.uk/drawings.html?company_cat=20496&product_list_limit=36 3405M was converted for use in the weedkilling train. How long did it last in that role? It was probably the last one of the batch in use into the early 1980s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53448459987/ Seen here in 1984 after being replaced but before being scrapped: The slight twist is that although this was definitely 3405M, it isn't carrying its suffix in the photos. I'm not sure of the history of the other bogie flat in these photos, it also looks old though quite different. There were some older and later survivors in the engineers' fleet but they were ex-GSWR so did not have a suffix. There were also some late-surviving old wagons in the A-suffixed series for non-revenue wagons including lowmacs (which had their own thread a few months ago), bogie well wagons and the 12-wheel heavy-duty wagon (which, despite appearances, was not the remains of the turf burner). https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511515508 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508783799 So, in response to @jhb171achill's quiz question, are there any advances on 3405M into the early 1980s?

Having had a look at my references, in 1967 these are still listed in the carriage list, but by 1979 they had gone. The three extra bogie TPOs 2979-2981 were introduced in 1968 (modified from older passenger coaches). I think they were intended to replace the 4-wheelers, so around 1968 would probably be the date they were withdrawn from normal service and some transferred to engineers' use. Here's a photo from Ernie showing some details of a silver one at Mullingar in 1959. Also from Ernie, one at Sligo in a train of mostly silver liveried vehicles, apart from the loco which rather spoils the space-age image! Both these photos show the configuration of the water pipes for the toilet, not often so obvious. Hope that helps, I look forward to seeing progress on the real thing. I'm planning to visit Downpatrick in August.

Let's hope for at least a railtour - I need to colour that bit in! When I was last in Limerick a few weeks ago, the Foynes line still wasn't connected at Limerick Check - there was a gap in the track and a fence across it.

With regard to intermodal at Foynes, the Irish Rail Freight Plan is at odds with the Shannon Foynes Port Co. (SFPC) strategy (see link below and related thread). SFPC see Foynes as a bulk commodities port and their strategy to 2041 does not include intermodal provision. https://sfpc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/SFPC-MASTERPLAN-Final.pdf

Thanks! If you like, I can send you some details of how to order a set of etches to build one. Let me know if you would like me to PM you. The instructions are up-thread here: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/17976-making-an-‘e’-–-the-maybach-diesel-model-assembly-thread/page/6/#findComment-260726 Cheers, Mol

This is a good question! I'll have a look at my notes later; there may be a clue in the WTT wagon number listings. The well-known pre-GSR survivors (things like the plough van and the presidential coach) were former GSWR vehicles so they didn't have a suffix. You've probably right that it was one of the former MGWR bogie flats used for PW duties. Possibly some ballast wagons of various types? Unfitted vehicles lasted longer in PW usage. Very interesting info, many thanks John. The 15147-16812 series included a variety of designs of various dimensions and forms of construction. I think there were at least 4 types in blocks within that number series and I'm presently trying to make sense of these. The info and reference for the 1938-1940 construction are therefore very helpful.

So here’s a photo reproduced in Donal Murray’s ‘Great Southern Railways’ showing such a vehicle. The photo is undated. It’s not an LMA van (no corrugated ends) nor an H van (no triangulated underframe) so is probably a mid-1940s build as referred to in the quote above. The absence of diagonal strapping is notable, and I need to investigate this some more. I think the photo has been flipped horizontally when printed in the book, because the brake lever seems to point the wrong way.

Most of us lose out when rules and finances are in turmoil. But those with a lot of money and an appetite for risk (or some insider info) can make millions in times of turmoil. Someone’s winning, somewhere…

Agreed, for the heating vans the later 1959/60 batch were built in green as far as I can tell, so there were a reasonable number of green 'tin vans'. A handful of the earlier 1955/6 batch of heating vans were repainted in green, but only a small minority. The rarities (based on the photos I've reviewed) were luggage 'tin vans' in green. There was certainly one, and there are a disproportionate number of photos of it as it was used on an IRRS railtour. But I don't think there were many. And as far as I can tell, none of the CIE-built TPO's carried green until the preservation era, when at least two of them did! As always, I'd love to be proved wrong by photographic evidence if anyone can provide it!

Further to my previous post, a few more images of Turf wagons for those who might be interested. All these from Robin N Clements who was clearly interested in the subject! The interior view will be important for modelling purposes. RNC_CMDR_32RA_Maynooth_06_Mar_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N … | Flickr RNC_GSWR_8829_1915A_Kildare_03_April_1949 | [Photographer: R… | Flickr RNC_GSWR_956_Leixlip_27_March_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N … | Flickr RNC_CMDR_11RA_Leixlip_27_Mar_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N C… | Flickr RNC_CMDR_13RA_Leixlip_27_Mar_1949 | [Photographer: Robin N C… | Flickr

Accurascale's entry to the NG7 market?

Hmm Custardy or should it be Custody? Nice work as always!

Back in the day I attempted two Q kits, for the A and C class. They were hard work and I was never happy with them, though they did run and look more like the prototype than a Lima class 33! Keep up the good work with the MTK heavy metal. I now wish I hadn't binned my MTK Irish coach kits; I think they would have been salvageable with my present skills even if I made a mess of them 25 years ago.

Whilst the coming of steam locomotives, and later electric traction, were expected to oust the horse, I find it fascinating that CIE's rail division was using horses in Dublin as late as 1968, so the humble Dobbin survived later than steam traction, and later than electric traction, working for CIE in Dublin. The Drumm trains, the Dublin city trams and the GNR trams had all gone well before that. Later, of course, DART and LUAS would come. And who knows, maybe one day some more knitting for the main lines. A similar scenario occurred in 1979 for the Pope's visit. It's amazing to read of the special arrangements made for that by CIE, which was at the time in the midst of a funding crisis and serious industrial relations problems. But for the crucial few days, everyone pulled together and somehow it all worked! Please supply us some more of these wonderful notes from the past!

Interesting that there were two stages to their rebuild. There are some photos of them in the 1947/8 condition in the IRRS archives, along with some open wagons converted with 'greedy boards' to carry a larger volume of turf. For example: RNC_DSER_53D_Inchicore_21_Aug_1947 | [Photographer: Robin N … | Flickr RNC_CMDR_14RA_Inchicore_21_Aug_1947 | [Photographer: Robin N… | Flickr RNC_GSR_10627_Inchicore_26_Apr_1947 | [Photographer: Robin N… | Flickr RNC_CMDR_32RA_Clonsilla_01_Aug_1948 (2) | [Photographer: Rob… | Flickr RNC_CMDR_32RA_Clonsilla_01_Aug_1948 | [Photographer: Robin N… | Flickr I recall reading somewhere that CIE tried Irish Tweed, as an attempt to support home industry, but that it wore badly compared to normal carriage upholstery materials. Not sure if this was that occasion. It had several minor modifications, and was eventually purchased by BR and painted in normal carriage livery, which rather ruined the effect. Some photos on Flickr by Robert Carroll:

This has got @Darius43 written all over it. A grotty 1980s kit for an imaginary diesel loco. https://ebay.us/m/o2DlTT

On the subject of the H van cladding, here's another photo from Ernie dated 1966. A pair of H vans in the foreground - the one behind the pole is freshly painted in the pale grey and roundel livery. But to its left, the nearest one is still in snail livery, with the panels extremely pale silver-grey. The steel framing has lost its paint, gone rusty and looks very dark by comparison. So are the panels aluminium-faced ply rather than plain ply? For comparison, here's a freshly-painted one in mid-grey snail livery:

All this info is extremely interesting - many thanks! I'll pick up on this bit now as it does indeed mesh nicely with my research into the various types of van and open wagon produced from the mid-1920s onwards. Post-WWII there was a surplus of aluminium, because production had been massively increased in wartime for building aircraft, and that demand had dropped suddenly. Also there were thousands of surplus aircraft, potential sources of recycled aluminium. However, good quality timber was in short supply. This led to some innovations in rail vehicle construction. The reference to "new aluminium-sided box wagons" could relate to either: The LMA (light metal alloy) goods vans, which I believe had the entire body structure made of aluminium sections and sheeting. They had corrugated ends and different framing and roofs compared to the wooden-bodied vans. More conventional goods vans broadly to the 1924 IRCH steel-framed design, but using aluminium-faced ply instead of planks. The ply could be made from lower-quality timber sources, while the aluminium facing helped to keep it weather-proof and reduced the need for painting. Both of these variants were built at Inchicore and I can look out some photos later. They used conventional steel underframes rather than the triangulated Bulleid design. Later a similar aluminium-faced laminated material (including timber and insulation elements) was also used for carriages at Inchicore. What I haven't got entirely clear in my head is whether the sides of some of the H vans had an aluminium facing originally. Photos of later survivors where the paint has deteriorated clearly show that the outer surface was ply, but by then that might have been substituted for the original material. 1950s photos show them in a very pale greyish colour, so pale that the white lettering is almost invisible. I did wonder if that was weathered unpainted aluminium, or whether the grey paint just faded very badly. Photos of vans being overhauled at Inchicore at that time show newly-painted overhauled H vans in a mid-grey (this was still in the snail period). Photo from Ernie dated 1961, very pale grey H vans contrast with the mid-grey colour of the 'Big Boy' van and the freshly repainted H on the right: Also 1961, photo from John Phillips showing newly-painted mid grey H vans: JPS_GSWR_Sambo_03_June_1961 | [Photographer: John Phillips] … | Flickr Maybe the grey paint just faded very badly.

Considering the standardisation in EMD products, it wouldn't surprise me if they are a useful source of parts to keep the 071s going. Some of those parts may now be hard to find elsewhere.

This photo shows the blank side and the skylights: https://flic.kr/p/2pwCmf3 There are 3 TPOs here, two 4-wheelers and a bogie one. The 4-wheelers are opposite ways round. Another view of the same train: https://flic.kr/p/2pwByWw This photo of Fry’s model shows the other side in original condition, though I’m not sure that the number style is correct: So I think you have one side of the vehicle fairly original and the other modified.

I can link a selection of photos for you, maybe tomorrow. In original condition one side had no windows at all, but there were skylights in the roof. They originally carried silver livery, then black and tan, but I’ve never found a photo of one in green.

Recently I have been reading this heavy tome: I have found it very interesting, although I suspect it may not be for everyone. Its 470 pages are heavy on text and light on photos, and the story is told from the point of view of the CIE board and their perennial battles with government about funding and strategic direction, and with staff unions about productivity. On the other hand it does mention many details of the transport innovations which occurred behind the scenes. What I found fascinating was that it provided a context for all the other CIE history which we as modellers are more familiar with - loco and rolling stock orders, network rationalisation, changes in freight handling, relationships between rail, road and other transport modes. It gives the other side of the story from the normal enthusiasts' or travellers' point of view '## branch line should never have been closed' or 'why on earth did they try and introduce ## service without enough carriages?', or 'why is my bus always late?', and things that I certainly wasn't aware of, such as when CIE delayed publication of their entire accounts for over a year because the hotels subsidiary had been bankrupted by the effects of the Troubles. Published in 1995 it ends on an upbeat note with increasing traffic on both rail and bus services, new stock being delivered and improvements to infrastructure. It would be interesting to hear this side of the story brought up-to-date for the 30 years since then. The book is readily available secondhand.