Mol_PMB

I'm mulling over the idea of a small shunting layout in 21mm gauge. I have strong memories of Limerick in the 1980s and although the railway has a vast sprawl aound the city, there are opportunities for smaller cameo scenes. With my main interest being wagons and locos, the wagon works and stabling point seem like they might be a good place to model. But the usage of these buildings has changed over time, and I'd like to make sure my plan is plausible. I'm most interested in what each of the buildings was used for in the 1970s-1990s period. Some photos from Ernie on Flickr show the array of buildings in the wagon works area, from left to right... Bus depot on the far left, then the Foynes line, then older and newer buildings part of the wagon works: Just visible on the right-hand edge of the photo above is the original WLWR works: Further to the right, the stabling point: And the main lines are beyond that further to the right: There's a fascinating mix of ancient and modern buildings here, and a mix of locos and wagons with a main line passing too. There are also some interesting links here showing a traverser, and some present-day interior views of the buildings: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11551-limerick-wagon-works-traverser/#comment-178608 https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2024-Photos/July-2024/i-qMBP3WJ Here's a present-day aerial image from Google maps, on which I've drawn some coloured outlines: Working upwards from the bottom: The bus depot shown in purple is, I think, on the site of the former loco shed? The Foynes line runs just north of that. The green building is presently the wagon works, the blue buildings are derelict and I'm not sure what they originally were, or when they fell out of use. The old WLWR works/shed is shown in orange, and I assume the red part behind was also part of the works as it was built in a similar style. These buildings are presently used for railcar servicing. Were they part of the wagon works at one time, or was this always a loco facility? Ernie's photo above shows a wagon in the left-hand road and a loco in the right-hand road. This 1980s photo shows a lot of wagons, and what might be a carriage in the middle road: Finally, the small brick building with the bay windows, shown in yellow on the map. What was its history and purpose? I'm thinking that for a small wagon shunting layout, the yard in that last photo might be a nice place to model. 3 sidings for shunting wagons, a fourth track behind the brick building to stable spare locos. Some characterful buildings, and a place that I remember well. But there are other interesting areas of the works too, like the traverser, the loco stabling point and the buildings nearer the Foynes line. I can't fit it all in! I'd welcome any info on the history of the works buildings and activities here, or pointers towards articles on the topic. Cheers, Mol

I have some of the WLWR books you've already looked at, but also quite a good selection of older 'general' Irish railway books. Sadly, very few feature the WLWR; most consider it as part of the GSWR, and without any photos. 'Irish Standard Gauge Railways' (Middlemass) does at least illustrate a WLWR loco, 2-4-0 number 11 at Limerick works. But that's not one you need and I think it also appears elsewhere. 'Transport in Ireland 1880-1910' (Flanagan) has a lovely photo of Foynes dated 1897, but the loco is very distant. Also a nice photo of Killaloe in 1897 with 2-4-2T either 13 or 14, 5 coaches and a variety of vans and wagons. But again it doesn't help complete your list. For the record, the following books did not include pre-1900 WLWR photos: A regional history of railways, Vol 16 Ireland (Rowledge) Railways in Ireland 1834-1984 (Doyle&Hirsch) Irish Steam (Nock) Railway History in Pictures: Ireland (McCutcheon) Broken Rails (MacAongusa) The North Kerry Line (O'Rourke) So, sorry, I can't help! Mol

Having failed to find any suitable transfers I have started doing some artwork for my own custom decals. And it has become apparent that there is more variation than I had thought, so I'm basing these on photos of my preferred prototypes. I'm not quite finished yet, still fine-tuning the black shading. The shaded numbers are based on the Humanst521 BT font, which is similar to Gill Sans but with some subtle differences. However, I've still had to tweak a lot of the numeral shapes. The unshaded numbers I've created myself from scratch using arcs and straights, as I couldn't find any suitable font. I'm trying to match the number spacing on each loco individually. 192 had a mismatched numeral on one end only! This is hard work, but I'm getting there. Observant readers will realise that I don't have 4 baby GMs but maybe I will get some more in future. All these have some significance to me. Please forgive my OCD! Mol

And in that, you've highlighted one of the challenges with containers. The dimensions are standardised but the modelling scales aren't, so a 1:43.5 scale doesn't stack on a 1:45 scale or a 1:48 scale! I scratchbuilt my 1:43.5 scale boxes, because there wasn't anything available in the right scale to match my desired prototypes (mid 1960s Manchester Liners). Fortunately, for Irish 4mm scale there are some nice products available in 4mm scale. And I have found photos of both MOL containers and Manchester Liners containers on trains in Ireland so I can have a couple of my favourites. But CIE and BELL must dominate. I haven't yet got any Irish wagons capable of carrying containers so I mustn't get ahead of myself...

I have done some 7mm scale containers, and I have the transfers for a MOL one, but like so many projects I haven't got around to it!

I normally model in 7mm scale, here's a few of my road vehicles, mostly IXO as a basis:

Weathering is now just about complete, though I'll take a second look when this has fully dried. One's very tatty, the other two aren't so bad. I will replace the wheelsets (and weather the new ones), but I'm waiting on some parts. I've weathered the interiors so I don't need to load them, but in due course I probably will make some loads.

Super, many thanks for the detailed views of the wagonry. The side of the brakevan looks very presentable (and even has shaded numbering!) but the roof is in a terrible state!

I've been working on adding the different brakes to one of the corrugated wagons. Some of the triangulated underframe wagons had a 4-shoe brake with the brakes mounted outboard of the wheels. I do like little variations in my fleet. Here are some images showing the arrangement; these are in the public domain from Ernie on Flickr, but there are clearer shots on the IRRS archive. I added the brake shoes from spare bits in a Parkside kit, having previously drilled them carefully with a 0.5mm drill bit. Then I soldered up the cross-beams from brass wire and strip: These were then fitted into the small holes in the brake shoes: Which looks like this when it's the right way up: It's a bit simplified, but once painted and weathered I'm sure it will look fine.

Many thanks! Here’s a slightly closer view of the 6-wheeler: And some tenders: I would probably have taken more photos but I was distracted by the arrival of this: Which incidentally is a bit of a livery variation itself. For most of the supertrain livery era, loco numbers were low down on the bodyside behind the cab, presumably because the tablet catcher was on the cabside. There was a short period in the mid 1980s, after the tablet catchers were removed but before the white stripes were added to the livery. when some locos were repainted in supertrain with cabside numbers. This wasn’t common on the 001s, but there were a fair number of 141s with cabside numbers in supertrain livery. When the white stripe livery was introduced, the cabside became the standard place for the numbers on all classes.

Weathering stages on the corrugated wagons continue and should be complete tomorrow. Now that I've got the various kits to play with I should have enough parts to complete the alternative brake gear on one of them - a job for tomorrow. In the meantime I have started a project that may be familiar to many: an ex-GNR cement van. I've convinced myself by lots of scaling off photos that the van body of the GNR van is the same size as the BR vans - rather than the slightly shorter and wider Irish standard. That makes things easier! I'm using the Parkside PC08A kit as a basis, but I've swapped the solebars from a Parkside PC25 as they have the right sort of axlebox (but the wrong brakes). I needed to add extra V hangers anyway so that was no great problem, and the PC08A solebars have an alternative destiny... I've cut and sanded off the buffers and re-drilled at Irish spacing. I have some spare RCH buffers I can rob from a Cambrian chassis kit. The holes for the vents have been filled with a slice of plasticard and some filler which I'll deal with tomorrow once it's set hard. In the meantime I've added a load of little etched details to the sides, to replace the moulded bits that weren't quite right. These came from the Mainly Trains 'wagon detailing components' etch, the Cambrian etched tiebars, and the 51L 'Brake levers, V's and guides' etch BLGVB. I'll be using more parts off these later... Photo of a prototype from Jeremy Chapter on Flickr: I am considering getting some rivet transfers from Railtec to add the rivets/bolts around the edge of the doors. Many of these vans seem to have acquired strips across the roof, as in the photo above, but they weren't built with them and some survived to the end without. I'm quite tempted to model the one shown in Neil Smith's photo here, dated 1981. In this pair it's the H van that has the strips on the roof, not the GN van! The wheels supplied with this kit have a finer profile than the ones in the IRM corrugated wagon - the tyre width is 2.2mm rather than 2.8mm. This should mean there's no difficulty in setting them to 21mm gauge, except that I'll need to lengthen the axle. In fact the wheel profile matches that on the EM gauge wheelsets I bought. So I think I'll end up using some wheels of this type to replace the IRM ones in the corrugated wagons. Not the best photo but this shows the finer profile of the wheels in the Parkside kit compared to those in the IRM corrugated wagon: Anyway, more tomorrow.

Decades ago I tried to cut and shut some Triang Big Big Train Mk2 coaches into something resembling an Irish Mk2. I think that was about the end of my Irish O gauge project that never really got off the ground! These look much better...

Looking through my old Irish photos I found one of 'my' boxes at Limerick in the early 2000s: Even back then, this was one of the older MOL boxes with the original livery. MOL is of course a compound acronym where the O is itself an acronym

I've got several locos needing renumbering or a change of logo to represent my favourite ones. They are: Bachmann 181 class Murphy 141 class IRM 001 class Firstly, I'd be interested to learn from anyone's experiences of removing numbering on these particular types of models. Which methods worked best - IPA, T-cut, fine abrasive, careful scraping? Which methods attacked the paint? Secondly, what's the best source of number transfers to suit Supertrain livery? Railtec seem to do sheets to suit particular loco classes, but not these ones. There are two distinct styles of number: Side numbers on these classes are larger, with a serif on the 1 and with black shading. Front numbers are usually smaller, sans-serif and unshaded (you wouldn't see the shading on an 001 class because it's applied to a black background, but it's also missing on the 141/181 classes). Also, some locos had S or SA suffixes which were smaller and unshaded. My photos of 158 and 014 illustrate the different number styles: For completeness, I should note that the first few 141/181 supertrain repaints in 1974 used the larger seriffed shaded numbers on the front too. Here's one of Ernie's photos showing 156 in the late 1970s: The following locos carried this style in the 1970s until their next repaint: 141, 156, 158, 160, 173, 175, 182 to 186, 188 to 190. There may have been a few more. And finally, not part of the question, a bit of inspiration for those cases where you can't quite get the old and new numbers to line up, or the sizes don't match, or the varnish doesn't protect them properly... (all my pics, and in IE days so well after my modelling time period) Cheers, Mol

I'm going to call this finished, for now at least: To add a bit of colour, I got the baby GMs out of their boxes for the first time. These both need some work (renumbering, weathering, DCC chips, probably regauging) but I want to finish off a few more wagons first. 149 is from the current Murphy Models batch, and is in late 1970s / early 1980s condition with tablet catchers: Factory-weathered 190 is from the first Bachmann batch, and is in mid-late 1980s condition without tablet catchers, but with SA suffix to its numbers and electrification flashes:

I think that's a breakdown train van, that runs with the crane. Presumably they were operated by the loco department which only owned tins of dark grey and red paints?

Like the middle one here (my photo):

Lovely work! I look forward to seeing this develop.

Many thanks for your thoughts and experiences. I suspect this was a fairly rare livery - applied for a short time and only to those wagons that happened to need repainting. It's applied to 2-plank dropside wagons, but when you see whole trains of them there are only a couple of red ones in the mix. I have also found a few more images, though some of these show different views of the same wagons and the livery isn't always clear. This is faded red with black underframe, it appears to have been 24477 but has been renumbered 360A without a repaint. It's the same type (converted from cattle wagon) and same lettering layout as 24514 we saw previously: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570644103 Just in the corner of the photo, this is the steel underframe type 24051-24100, in red with black underframe. And again in the distance, same train: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511304476 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510410237 This is probably 24076, we saw it in the previous post from a different angle, but the same location: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511469593 This appears to be 1970s all over bauxite: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509338094 This one clearly has different chassis and body colour, but it's not red. Bit of a mystery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509335364 Finally, although this is also a 2-plank dropside it's a different type of wagon with taller sides and it's in the 1950s snail era. The whole thing (including underframe) is a reddish colour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570466216 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570823079 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570499236 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511622074 Cambrian kit C077 might be a good starting point for a model. It is 17'0" over headstocks (very close) with 9'6" wheelbase (not quite right). Rapido made one in RTR but it's sold out:

Weathering continues. It's a slow process as I have to do one side at a time, and let it dry throroughly before applying the next layer. I'd say I'm about half way there with them. One is particularly heavily weathered, the other two are more moderate. At the moment it's all too contrasty, but a dark wash and a light spray of dirt will blend it back together. I bought a couple of EM gauge wagon wheelsets which have a finer profile than the OO ones. I think if I swap them into the corrugated wagons, I'll be able to get the 19.2mm BTB without the wheels rubbing on the W irons. Of course the EM axles are the wrong length... I wonder whether IRM could be persuaded to sell replacement 21mm gauge wheelsets? In other news, some wagon kits have arrived, and there will be much swapping of parts to achieve the desired results! I have a Parkside PC08A, PC25 and PC65, a Cambrian C107, and C105, plus a selection of spare buffers and brake gear parts. I'm hoping these can be mixed up to produce a GNR ex-cement van, a CIE palvan, and two NIR ex-Courtaulds wagons. More on them once the corrugated opens are finished.

The vegetation on the photo plank is now almost complete. All the bushes and shrubs are in place, though I may still add a bit more localised texture to the grassy areas, and trim the edges. I am working on a fence for the top of the cutting but at present the holes are marked with cocktail sticks while I prepare the fenceposts. I also plan to fit a plain grey backscene so you don't have to look at all the mess behind!

This photo from Ernie dated 1978 shows a couple of the PWD 2-plank dropsides, one in unpainted wood and the other which I think is dirty bright red because it has a grey underframe. It could just be bauxite, but the lettering style matches the bright red ones. Inconclusive, but at least this shows the type of wagon that was red. Here's a closer look at the unpainted one, also on a grey underframe. At least I assume it's unpainted rather that a creamy yellow?

One would make a fine 'gate guardian' at Cultra!

I stumbled across this web page http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw2407d.htm which has a nice selection of Irish colour photos from 1969, the rather monochrome period when all the wagons were grey and many of the locos were black! Certainly plenty of grey H vans and their earlier cousins to be seen here, no outlandish colours at all: http://www.nwrail.org.uk/dp2159.jpg http://www.nwrail.org.uk/dp2141.jpg http://www.nwrail.org.uk/dp2131.jpg

Sorry for the delay. I'm home now, with access to my wagon spreadsheet and photo links. Dropside 24054 in the foreground, may be the bauxitey colour. Then one without sides in the brighter red with black/grey underframe. The third wagon is unpainted, and the last one 24401 is indeterminate colour. Note numbers painted on the ends. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527762385 Other photos of the same train showing more wagons also show more red wagons among them: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527509543 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527331611 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527509538 Rear left, 24076 in red with black underframe. Right, 24078 in red with grey undreframe. Both appear to be bright red with white roundel, though a little faded: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511462853 Perhaps the best shot of a 4-wheeler is this portrait of 24514 in bright red body and grey underframe, small PWD, white roundel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510417347 The 6-wheeler 24103 undergoing rebuild, with some parts in worn bauxitey red: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511646909 And in service after completion of the rebuild, in bright red, black underframe, white roundel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511646919 Please note, only IRRS members with access to the IRRS Flickr archive will be able to view these links. Mol