jhb171achill

Going back to the topic of potential for modelling in more northerly climes, there's also the narrow gauge. Of the 14 or so narrow gauge lines which carried the public, no less than eight, plus another which didn't carry the public (and was the first), were all in Ulster. This included the smallest (Portstewart Tramway - 1.5 miles) and the two biggest, with some 300km of track between them - the CDR & LLSR. And three of them survived to become part of the UTA, though that body got rid of all three just about as quickly as it could, but not before several locos on the Ballycastle line received the UTA lined black livery. One was repainted thus but never ran again!

As for carriages, the remains of saloon 900 at Belturbet can be tken as the standard body shape outline for WLWR coaches. Almost their entire fleet were 6-wheelers. Unfortunately, nothing else survives. From what very little I've seen, wagons were broadly similar to earlier-era wagons of the day, on other lines. And yes, very elegant locos.

You've certainly done your bit for the north with Brookhall!

Just to add, a layout based pre-1900 of anything Irish would be pure gold dust. And the north has SO much untapped potential for modelling in any era. IRM's Mk. 2s and Hunslets, and provincial UTA Spoil wagons will hopefully trigger a change in this - the gaping gap, of course, being Jeeps and the fascinating array of railcars - AECs, BUTs (2 designs), MEDs and MPDs (multiple variations) and above all 70 & 80 class railcars. But of course none of those are exactly pre-1900; to your own suggestion, a BNCR branch would be easy. Scratch building their coaches would be much easier than any other company, as like earlier BCDR ones they were flat-sided and non-corridor. In fact, if a genesis-style "generic" flat-sided six-wheeler could be available, maybe by 3D printing, it would pass a "2ft rule" as BCDR or BNCR. For wagons, a scratch-built brake van is needed, as theirs were unlike anything else that ran in Ireland OR - as far as i've ever seen - in Britain. But wagons - Leslie's convertible "soft-top" vans are fine (2ft rule!) and Leslie's GNR cattle wagons could well be visiting the BNCR area with a cattle special from somewhere in Tyrone or Fermanagh!

Northroader The lining is as the loco immediately above. Like quite a few exhibits in Cultra - and in preservation in Ireland in general, liveries are wrong - often nonsensically so, and if I dare say so, inexcusably so. People who are interested in the authentic appearance of something, like your good self, will naturally look to museums and the like for what ought to be accurate information. Portstewart tram No. 1 as above is correct. Now we see what they meant by "invisible green"; this thing is preserved in correct BNCR livery and lining. Comparison with the bright green in the one above shows how crassly wrong the Cultra engine is; they have the BCDR NO. 30 in a similar bright green - which it never carried. BCDR livery was almost as dark as BNCR - certainly a good shade darker than UTA green. BNCR carriage livery was a very dark maroon. mI'd need to check, but I think the lining was gold. You're right, Fry has nothing actually in BNCR livery. The livery of the CIE brake van in Cultra is wrong too, on a number of counts, as are some other things too. Whitehead is another offender, and so on. Even 800 "Maedb" is wrong; it's been given "G S" letters on its tender in there, when it's in full Inchicore-applied standard CIE 1950s passenger loco / bus green. GSR green was nothing like that. However....... the good thing about our hobby is our diverse interests and ability to amiably discuss differing opinions. I am well known for an interest in liveries, so while I fully accept and fully respect any opinion which says "who cares about the livery"; fair enough - but I do, and it really irritates me to see something wrong, especially when it could so very easily have been done right in the first place! Wow! You had me there, Rob - that is a VERY rare beast of a photo!

He told me he’s starting his therapy next week, once he can calm down the involuntary twitching and loud screams….!

The position of them could vary on the 121s too…

Ah, the MCWR. Mullingar, Carlow & Waterloo Railway. Seems legit.

Worth commenting on all of those vehicles, set aside in the 80s at mullingar (where they are pictured) with POSSIBLE preservation by the RPSI in mind. The left hand one, as is obvious from the bowed-in ends, is of WLWR origin, built in 1896, I think. It was one of only verey few bogies owned by that company which was a bit like the BCDR in favouring a diet almost completely of six-wheelers. The ex-WLWR Director's Saloon was also there, out of the picture to the left. Built the same time, they were GSWR Nos. 934 & 935. The green one is GSWR 1110 as staqted, followed by a container, and finally MGWR six-wheeler 13M. Nothing survives of any of them, bar the chasis of 13M, which is currently used at Downpatrick to house the body of the sole remaining GNR six-wheeler that awaits restoration there. The chassis of 1110 survived for a while, possibly at Downpatrick, but I'm not sure what became of it. Sadly the two WLWR vehicles have gone to their rest, partially thanks to the numbskull vandals of the good town of Mullingar... As an aside, the solitary WLWR vehicle left is No. 900, the former first class family saloon (not "royal saloon" as Belturbet calls it), thankfully saved and in store in the old loco shed at Belturbet. This yoke sat for years and years at Claremorris as a staff bothy. Many of us who have amassed a certain amount of birthdays will recall it as such. It would be great to see it restored.

Will it be live steam?

It is, yes - a former GSWR full brake. This is another quirk - anything in departmental green usually had a red end, but not things in grey.If they were grey they were grey all over, so this is one of thye "Cork Exceptions" which included such oddities as a J15 painted grey but with black firebox (normally grey all over), and several West Cork coaches which had the dark green, and two snails, but no lining. In livery terms it's amazing what details crop up. Analysis even today of such things throw up ICRs with IE symbols in normal colour, or all black, or all white; and on the modern grey 071 livery, numbers in different positions, with different spacings, and different fonts. Plenty to keep the livery nerds (of which I'm probably the worst) well occupied. In the very late 1980s, while throughout their entire lives Cravens never carried logos of any kind, lo and behold one or two managed to acquire for a while the Irish Rail "set of points" logo - one at each end.

Exactly. That one is (or was!) ex-GSWR No. 1110.

I’ve seen pics of that years ago. At one stage, in departmental (rather than traffic use) it and a number of other coaches used mostly interactive locations, guy a cost of standard bus green, with red ends which rapidly faded to a salmony pink or orange-looking colour. This continued into the late 60s, after the green livery had gone elsewhere - some green engineer’s dept. vehicles like that were green with roundels.

On the subject of oddball or one-off wagon liveries, many here will be aware of the fact that on cattle fair days, living vans were send to rural places for extra crews to bunk down in. They could be converted old coaches, but there were a small number of purpose-built ones, especially on the MGWR & GSWR. Normally standard all-over wagon grey, and one old one I’ve seen pics of still had a faded “G S” on the side in colour-photography days. One, at least, though, was bauxite brown from the late 1950s - ie over a decade before brown appeared on goods wagons. Another variation was the rectangular tank wagons used often for road vehicle or G class fuel in the sixties - grey chassis but black tanks.

Wow! Another absolute masterpiece is conceived! Looking forward to seeing this - very attractive design.

I’m sure I’ve seen a RTR model somewhere of something that would be a reasonable approximation of this type of 2-plank wagon…. not sure what make, though.

Had a good look at all of the above and did a good bit of other poking about. Undoubtedly several clearly show a livery of grey chassis and red - or at any rate very reddish - body. As I mentioned before, despite many visits to the likes of Port laoise and other yards, never once did I see anything that colour, so it has to be have been either a rare thing, a short lived thing, or both. Thus, I cannot throw any light on it whatsoever! However, while there is as above very clear evidence of the existence of this scheme, it has to be said that the majority of those photos are worn / faded bauxite rather than red. Paint pigments tended to sometimes assume a slightly more reddish tint when worn and faded - the original paint being the standard brown post-1970. Most interesting addition to my "livery dadabase"!

This release is gold dust. A few years ago, I would never have dreamed that anything Irish would ever develop beyond a bachmann SECR loco dressed up (to be fair, the good side of reasonably) as a GSR “Woolwich”; despite hauling CIE-liveried LMS coaches, of a design completely unknown anywhere in Ireland other than the NCC. IRM have completely opened up the Irish market. Most of here are well aware of the insurmountable financial viability aspects of producing an extremely high-end product for a very small market. And IRM is not a toy maker - that, in business terms, would be comparatively easy; they make exhibition-standard models. So when IRM produce something like a short-lived class of only three locomotives (and one, 103, clocked up WAY less mileage than the other two), that’s all the more for us here to be grateful for. So, well done IRM folks; you bring back my early 70s memories when I saw the “new Enterprise” (with an engine PUSHING it) for the first time. And that funny whistly sound. Compared to As and 141s, I guess they weren’t around long enough for their voices to break.

That is absolutely magnificent. The finish and lining are exquisite. Fantastic job!

Yes, a “bauxitey” colour tended to fade in a somewhat reddish way. That’s a bauxite brown, badly faded. It was quite unique for the time. WestCork - you mention possible CMDR origin; yes, it’s certainly not unlike that in design, but it plus another of somewhat different design, had GSWR numbers. No letter suffix - an ex-Macroom vehicle would have had “R” after the number. This was numbered 8457.

These are also suitable for a layout based in some parts of the North after 1958. They were very common on the Derry Road, and many regularly visited Newry and Warrenpoint. They were of course not just common, but probably in the majority, of wagons within the Dublin - Dundalk - Belfast goods right up until loose-coupled wagons were withdrawn from this route. Prior to 1965, you'd rarely have seen them on the NCC, but after that when the Derry Road closed, they were to be seen on the Dundalk - Lisburn - Antrim - Derry (Waterside) goods. I remember seeing one isolated in Lisburn which had been taken out of a train with a fault of some sort. While doubtless extremely rare indeed, I have an idea that I've seen a picture of one on the Larne line - though what it might have been doing there I cannot imagine. The earlier versions found their way all over the GNR in Fermanagh and Tyrone, and SLNCR too. (These would be the grey / snail ones, of course).

Yes, I think this is inded a "West Cork" thing. It looks even darker than loco grey, but that could be dirt - possibly both pics are the same wagon and it's thus a local "unique". The carriages behind the "C" are also a local arrangement - the older pre-1955 dark green but WITHOUT lining. (And a very familiar face on the platform with trademark brown raincoat...) Cork certainly did have stock of loco grey paint right up to the end. J15 No. 193 was repainted grey as late as about 1961 - probably 9along with one J18, I think) the last steam locos on CIE ever to get a full repaint. So it's possible they put it on thyat wagon. In a reversal of this, jhbSenior told of visiting Inchicore one day on the 1930s, and seeing a recently outshopped J15 after a heavy overhaul and complete repaint. It was considerably lighter than normal, having been clad in WAGON grey all over; wonder how long it lasted under the heat of the smokebox and chimney.... For those whop prefer weathering, it will be noted how wagons in use a while accumulated a browinh tinge - this was brake dust off the brake blocks. hard to believe that with the exception of that very dark "H" van, every wagon in the picture above has initially been painted one of only two colours - the lighter grey shown in the open wagon in the centre of the picture, which started appearing around 1960/61, or else the traditional "wagon grey" shown on the open wagon with the "snail" to the left of the small cabin. On the subject of livery in general, on the large cabin, the green and cream colour scheme which was applied by the GSR and later CIE to all stations up to the very early 1960s may be seen to good effect.

Good thinking; I will simply pass on a tip I received from a very experienced modeller friend of mine. He did a job for me with a road surface. He painted the baseboard a grey-sih brown muddy-looking colour, then scattered an even but light coating of REAL soil (suitably washed and with all organic material removed - thus more like sediment) over the road surface. Spray with light glue, presumably diluted PVA. Didn't need to paint it - it looks great. For a tarmac road I think i would put a dull greyish diluted wash of some sort over it after it had hardened.

Any idea of where - I'd be interested to see these...............

Apparently, still no word of any potential traffic on this line.... (nor the return of the Taras!)