jhb171achill

I don't have any balance sheets from the GSWR. I used to have but passed them on to someone else years and years ago. I don't remember taking the view that they were losing money overall - I would be fairly certain they were not. When railway companies here and in Britain went whinging to the government for money, it was usually more likely to be for repair to excess wartime wear and tear, reinvestment in worn out assets and so on, rather than the GNR's 1953 situation, which was essentially a bankruptcy rescue. If the the largest company in Ireland, had been losing money as long ago as that, there would have been little hope for the GNR, MGWR, DSER and NCC. Nationalisation would have occurred probably before the border appeared, leaving two state owned companies once it did. The GSR, after amalgamation, remain solvent. It was only outfits like the Listowel & Ballybunion that were not, and consequently it wasn't included in the GSR. The GSWR was solvent throughout its existence. So how serious were the GSWR directors in their ultimatum? I'd say they were serious in their assertion that they wanted loads of money for new track and the like, but were presenting a "worst case scenario" of closure of services, rather than an actual threat.

Who knows!

Well, if Ireland had remained a single jurisdiction, no border would have meant one owner nationally, whether under Irish or British rule. So no NCC, no GNR, no CDRJC, no BCDR, no GSWR, no CBSCR, no MGWR etc... Either an all Ireland UTA (in which case they probably have closed everything but Dublin - Cork) or an all Ireland CIE, meaning in either case standard designs across the island. The entire railway history would have been completely different. 141s into Derry, MPD cars in West Cork..... anything.

The green shown here was applied by CIE to: 1. Station building woodwork, footbridges and water tanks 2. Many main line and many suburban tank locos from about 1949-end of steam 3. Horse boxes 1945 onwards 4. Passenger carriages 1945-55 (lighter shade from the to the advent of B'n'T in 1962) Whether upside down or the right way up, coincidentally it's EXACTLY the same shade. Next, we see badly faded GSR maroon poking through underneath. The bits of lighter green to be seen among it all is undercoat, but coincidentally isn't a million miles off the "eau de nil". Finally, the best example I've ever seen of pristine EARLY (1925-33) GSR maroon. LMS shade was to follow from 1933 to the advent of CIE in 1945. The brown and cream GSR livery overlapped these two shades and was only applied to main line stock between about 1929 and the mid 30s. These examples were taken this afternoon from an old GSWR six wheel grounded body in a field. Due to being on private property I am not at liberty to say where. But it's in Ireland!!! The coach, plus two others, have been used as holiday homes in the past but are now derelict. I am trying to identify which carriage numbers they are. All three are six-wheelers of GSWR origin and judging by the design features would be of 1878-92 period. They appear to have been sold off by CIE in the early 1950s.

Probably not, come to think of it...

An NCC "W"? If so, no, that's a different one altogether. Both relatively modern, but it's highly unlikely NCC "W" class ones ever went behind a GNR loco in UTA days. I would completely agree that Hornby are missing a trick as Richard says....

If DFDS double their train length, Baseboard Dave's going to be busy! :-)

Working signals whether semaphore or light always add a great extra dimension of reality to a layout. One of the unique things at Tara Junction is seeing a carriage going round with a model of "The Wanderer", camera in hand, standing at an open door window in one vestibule of a Craven!

Not sure, josefstadt.... worth investigating....

Indeed, Eiretrains, forgot to mention that. That was the only locomotive WITH "supertrain" livery, but WITHOUT those lights! It should also be of interest to modellers to be aware that the latter day marker lights are way bigger than the originals. I'm not sure of exact dates (maybe someone here will know) but the marker lights as on 071s now, only came into use maybe in the early 1990s. This obviously applies to the other GMs as well.

It's mad to think of ALL the ports which either could be or were rail connected.... some aren't even ports any more! But we will always be an island.....! Rosslare (I wouldn't call that "rail-connected" now!) Arklow Dublin Drogheda Dundalk Warrenpoint Greenore Belfast Carrickfergus Portrush Derry Killybegs Burtonport Sligo Westport Galway Foynes Fenit Tralee Bantry Cork and surrounds...... Yes, I know there are more..... And actually meaningfully rail connected? One - Waterford. Just one.

While from a cultural point of view, it's a great shame that the Irish language declined so much in the 19th and 20th centuries, and in recent decades has been incorrectly seen by some as a political issue, it bred a generation of "language snobs" who mean well, certainly, but occasionally will sanctimoniously lecture the rest of us about not using it, or using it incorrectly. I knew two folks of this ilk, one with a degree of railway knowledge. He often told me that the Irish used by the CIE group of companies would, in his view, score bottom of the class in any basic school exam, with incorrect grammar and spellings abounding. His view of the Irish used by some other state agencies wasn't much better. Not bring in any position to disagree, I just sagely nodded my head..... Now, I know he meant well. I know that. In an ideal world we'd all speak many languages, and all language evolves. In 1000 years time, it's quite possible that English, Irish and Portuguese - or anything - will be long dead. CIE has variously run trains to Bré and Bri Chullain...... Hmm.

Many thanks, BSGSV. It's actually been with the publisher since last May, and effectively "in a queue" awaiting publication. I'm afraid I delayed it an initial few months as we came across just three extra photos which I felt were a MUST to include. These weren't Barry's (before his time) and I had copies but was unsure who owned the copyright - obviously they would have to be asked for permission. Thankfully the copyright owner was not only happy to do so, he told me I could use anything of his stuff in any future publication. All things being equal, I'm hoping it'll be ready for the RPSI May Tour (might do a mini-launch) and the accompanying Friday 071 trip. Fingers crossed.... With encouragement from another character who would be well know to many here, I'm working on another album of slightly earlier times. This will hopefully have as much dirty silver, late steam and green as it will have black'n'tan. The only thing is that the photos are not of the same quality, and I have already rejected out of hand some which despite Photoshopping within an inch of their lives, have deteriorated beyond redemption. A pity, because the subject matter (e.g. Banagher, Tullow) is interesting. Some black and white will feature in this one too. I'll update here when I've anything beyond the above to report!

Brilliant - you'll find that book an excellent resource. You'll get pictures in black'n'tan (a la A39 as it is now on the DCDR) with headlights, but not in all-black, or black with yellow ends. The earliest pictures I've ever seen WITH headlights is ONE of the "C"'s rebuilt as "B"'s (not the other!) and that was 1969. I can't be 100% certain, but I'd be 99% certain that no "C" or "A" had headlights before it was re-engined. You're right about the one you saw having already been rebuilt, though it would have by then acquired either the full tan side, or the "low" tan band; both were applied to rebuilds. Thus: silver, green, all-black, black with yellow ends, and SOME black'n'tan: no headlights. WITH headlights: black'n'tan, "supertrain" and "tippex" IE.

Yes, Dive, they ran like that throughout silver, green and black eras. Barry Carse's "Metrovicks" book will clarify. Same with the "C" class.

Tis indeed the case, Garfield. Or something like that; I've been told the exact details in the distant past, but I've forgotten.

When built, the "A" and "C" classes had NO lights at all above windows, and smaller marker lights. They date from the steam era, when the only light was an oil lamp attached to the front. People were expected to know to avoid trains; the idea that they must almost be floodlit (like today) was a concept for the distant future. The double headlights date from rebuilding days, thus a model of an "A" or "C" in silver livery, green or early black should not have them at all.

I'll have a look and see if I can find any more.

It does, actually, Daryl; hadn't noticed that myself, despite standing beside it!

I've just posted some pics of BR vans at Limerick in 2002 which might help. One thing about them - they tended to be a lot dirtier than passenger-carrying vehicles in traffic! The post-1990* orange was somewhat brighter than earlier. (* approximate)

Looks REALLY well! Excellent value.

Thank you, GSR. I might have added that with no yellow lines on the platforms or yellow ends on the trains, most of the day's passengers were probably in very grave danger............

One of my favourite layouts on here - but seen "in the flesh" is just pure wow factor! Well done Noel!

Limerick was the last place where passenger stock could be seen being shunted and made up into trains (albeit one and two coach ones) at the platforms, before LUAS took over IE & NIR and replaced everything with trams. And the railway was no more. Here, on 28th December 2002, 124 is on the push pull Junction train, 167 is station pilot and will eventually head for Rosslare with two Cravens and a van, while the Ennis train is one plus a van, as is the Nenagh branch train headed by 186. We watched 167 pushing single Cravens and BR vans about the place first. Now, I'm pretty certain that ALL of these will be upside down, so if I might humbly appeal to someone who is less hated by computers to put them right way up..... If it can't be done, I have an a and caption as follows: "The local trains for Tasmania (Connolly), Melbourne (Kent) and Alice Springs (1916) are shunted on above date".

Puts me in mind of a pint.... And this puts me in mind of a MGWR D16 or a G2.... Incidentally, among our litany of railway nicknames, anyone remember 201s being called "big birds" when new, due to their size and the newly introduced yellow bits, same colour as the Sesame Street character?