jhb171achill

The Wanderer, himself, might also have misbehaved.... ;-) But all of us are denying everything. We are unanimous....

Yes. The first is one of a series built by the GSWR between 1902 and 1905 and is probably an open third. The second is as Mayner says. The next one us a four compartment MGWR six wheeled first, and the far one isn't easy to identify, but the roof profile suggests it's ex GSWR. On livery, the first and third vehicles are in the very dark lake colour - actually, the exact livery on the DCDR No. 836 now. That first vehicle is much the same as 836. The other two are brown and cream. The maroon and cream was only applied to the Drumm trains. GSR coach liveries: 1. Dark lake, a la 836, lined gold and rec as on DCDR. Used in all vehicles to 1929 - a continuation of GSWR dark "lake". After 1929, only used on secondary stock including vast majority of 6-wheelers, while main line stock was brown and cream; this until 1933 after which all was lighter LMS-shade maroon. 2. Mid brown and cream, lined black. Applied 1929-34 approx to main line stock only. Everything else remained the dark reddish lake colour. The brown was much the same as the GWR shade in England. 3. Lighter maroon, lined yellow and black, identical to English LMS, though lettering an entirely different style. Applied to everything from 1933 onwards, though jhb171senior recalled seeing a 6-wheeler at Kingsbridge still in GSWR livery in the thirties... Narrow gauge: darker maroon initially, later post 1933 lighter maroon. No narrow gauge vehicles were ever brown and cream. Drumm trains: their own unique variant: maroon (LMS shade, not the dark lake) and cream, also painted in the LMS shade standard (all over) maroon. By 1940, virtually all the old dark shade and brown/cream vehicles had been repainted standard (lighter) maroon.

That's correct, DiveController. But in that period, most stock of that type was unfitted, and they only started painting them brown later on, ie everything was grey then. The GNR and NCC / UTA had brown fitted wagons way back in the late 50s though, but not CIE. Another point worth noting is that any time liveries or markings changed, wagons were behind locomotives and coaching stock in the pecking order. Thus, even after the "broken wheel" first appeared in 1963, wagons would only very gradually be repainted. I saw H vans as late as 1976 still in traffic with "snails".

Interesting pics.... The middle one is described on the original caption as being taken at Kingsbridge - I don't think this is right. Looks more like Broadstone to me. Anyone?

Brilliant photos, brilliant layout. Small point, if I may.... The brown for wagons would have been post-1970 approx - in 1963 all would have been grey. When the RTR 121s appear, one of those will add to scenes like this too. I believe that the DSER was one of the first places they were put into regular traffic.

An absolutely excellent event and impromptu overnight, as the Wanderer said, and thanks to ttc of Tara Junction for great hospitality for us! Josefstadt, ttc, and several "sleeping" members of this site (including one who drank lager instead of Guinness in Tubbercurry last night), all visited Tara Junction this morning: In the next one, "The Wanderer" prepares to take some pictures at Tara Junction....

They were meant to stand. Staff were issued instructions to inspect them here and there to ensure none had fallen.

That layout is as good in real life as it looks here! The last three of us standing emerged from Heuston station this evening suitably guinnessed and Tara Junctionned.... Never knew Tubbercurry had such great night life!

An excellent evening in excellent company; Messrs josefstadt and ttc, plus two other readers of this forum. This morning's visit to Tara Junction was the highlight. Very many thanks again, ttc!

Looks the part (especially the accurate surface; hope it's not real cow dung!) - that's exactly how they were laid out.

They were called cattle docks, more commonly in England. England is a strange place. They have MPDs, like we did, but they are loco sheds, not railcars on the Larne line. They also have loco depots, which are also loco sheds. They have DMUs instead of railcars. MPDs and DMUs are both railcars. They aren't aware of this. They have signal boxes instead of signal cabins. Everything is narrow gauge. They call carriages TSOs, GHSs, BSKs, JHBs (well, maybe not that;) KSX, NHG, HTR, GGT... or whatever; instead of "open thirds", "corridor seconds", "Mk 1 standards" and "dining cars".... and the innards of what they call a snack car is to us, a dining car (or maybe it's vice versa...)! But, diversity adds interest to our rainy world, doesn't it...

They did initially. There were pens on each one. (A cattle platform was known in "railway" days as a "cattle bank". It had railings along the edge with openings in them, and wagons were aligned accordingly when loading / unloading from each pen. Cattle were driven into the pens from road side, or unloaded from cattle lorries at the gates of them.

And mid picture P29, railings still in place. Latterly, these railings were of old rail, but before that they were wooden, sometimes of old sleepers. Page 18 overgrown, left.

You'll also often see modern remains with a platform apparently way higher than normal platform height; this was more recent, for beet lorries to back up so they could tip beet into open wagons. Top pic P84 Rails through the West; Tubbercurry (distance, left) Top P71 Kiltimagh (left) P38, bottom, Craughwell Pages 34 and 36, top in each case; Ardrahan. On P34 you can just see the raised bit for lorries at the bottom of the pic. I won't copy and post, as they'd be upside down!

Yes. This was common practice especially in the west. Remains of some cattle banks are still to be seen nowadays here and there, usually buried under piles of spent ballast, weeds and old track panels thrown aside.

Only in Co. Clare, Minister. Everyone knows there are none anywhere else.... It has been suggested that there's one in Dublin, living up in the Aras.... naturally, I didn't say that.

Tis true, Junctionmad; totally true. It said so in the Evening Herald, so it must be.

When I'm dealing with tourists, I explain Irish cattle them, as we pass them in fields. The brown ones are for beef and dairying. The cream ones are for Bailey's Liqueur. The black and white ones are for Guinness. Can anyone prove me wrong?

It is indeed pricey - but, as others have said, better a pricey model which needs detail improvement - than none at all!

".........Also, there has been a lot of debate on which green is which for CIE. The reality is that no one knows for sure at this remove........." Thankfully, there are definitive examples available. The darker green - actual stuff - is on two of the coats of arms in "Headhunters" railway museum in Enniskillen; the DUTC one and the actual "Flying Snail" itself - the latter, of course, being an original also shows the correct shade for the "eau-de-nil" and the gold lining of same. On a larger scale, No. 800 in Cultra is painted using actual CIE paint in Inchicore - Cultra didn't paint it, they simply (incorrectly) added the "G S" letters. The lighter green used after 1955 has been seen accurately portrayed in recent years on the RPSI's Dublin "Heritage" set, and on the TPO and G611 at Downpatrick. However, in the case of all of these vehicles, care should be exercised; all are badly faded now from when they were painted, and thus my not be taken any longer as good examples. But they certainly show accurately enough what this colour was like when very badly faded and weathered. Another thing I notice on that layout, and which is surprisingly rarely modelled - the cattle bank - an absolutely essential part of I am sure 95% of Irish railway stations. Yet again, very well done!

thanks, gentlemen; I must try that!

I've seen that pic, and others like it. That was an absolutely fascinating time in Irish railway history, when there were 1880s six wheelers hauled by brand new C class locos with brand new tin vans at the end, or 1870s steam engines hauling brand new laminate coaches! I have seen a pic of a train in Killarney made up of: Green A hauling Green laminate Silver tin van Black'n'tan 1902/3 GSWR open third Green tin van As I've mentioned before, similar to the one Mayner mentioned, a local train li Lisburn consisting of - UTA green AEC car UTA "sectorised" blue and cream K15 GNR coach NIR maroon and grey AEC car.... Today - CAFs and ICRs. From Midleton to Derry. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Gotta be UTA because it has no flying snail, unless they're in the sky....

Some of those look black'n'tan, but the tan isn't quite orange enough, and they have no CIE logos on their sides.....

That's something I've heard before and I suppose it relates to accuracy in general of stuff at the lineside. For example, there can't be a single vehicle ever ran with shiny tyres, but I've yet to see one with weathered or muddy tyres on a vehicle on a layout! I remember reading an article somewhere years ago where things like the correct form of gutters, corrugated iron roofs, street lights and things like that were discussed. Doesn't sound like something that too many of us would have high on our agendas, but it's surprising what a difference it makes if anyone takes the time (which we don't all have!) to do it....