jhb171achill

Actually, that's worth pursuing as a "might have been". Had, for example, the mass emigration never happened, the railway would have been WAY busier, but there still wouldn't have been more coal, ores or steel. Passenger traffic would have been the big thing. Commuter services would be evident in Waterford, lots more in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Derry. Those out of Belfast and Dublin would be very much greater. We could expect a great deal more double track with locomotives maybe not generally that much bigger, as distances wouldn't be greater, but faster. Would there, for example, have been many classes of "Jeep"-like fast tank engines, suitable for intensive suburban work? Electrification, in the absence of huge Irish coal reserves, would very definitely have played a part. If we compare places like southern England, where passenger traffic was huge, and see the extensive electrification of the railways there from the 1920s on, we probably have a more accurate picture of what Ireland would have looked like. Southern electrics on the Achill line or County Donegal? Yeugh. Yeugh.

Down with this sort of thing. If yizzer all not careful, I'll put up an avatar with a LUAS ICR on it!

Very true indeed - and that actually would have in itself changed the railways. Doubled tracked Cavan & Leitrim, and double headed 2.10.0's on half-mile-long goods trains on the Banagher branch, anyone?

Exactly, Horsetan. Had the country been awash with money, the entire Irish railway scene would have been hugely different probably from the early 1920s onwards. But it wasn't - Bertie and Peter Robinson had it. In cash only, in brown envelopes, of course, to match GNR brown. And they weren't even there when they didn't get it, and they never put it in bank accounts, which didn't exist anyway, even after they weren't discovered.... Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental. May contain nuts. Do not try this at home.

In the CIE livery, yes, they would have had a light green stope above and below window level. The stroke above window level was thicker than the one below - the reverse of those RTR (is it Hornby or Bachmann?) repainted LMS coaches that you can buy. Nothing in CIE green, of either light or dark shade, ever had white (or yellow) stripes, numerals or snails - they were all a light green colour. With matchboarded sides, I don't know if the Pullmans had snails. They certainly had no Pullman markings, as Pullman travel, as a distinct entity, was ancient history by 1945 when CIE was formed. The word "Pullman" disappeared after a comparatively short time in GSR days. Jhb171 senior recalled that when brand new, in maroon, they had "GREAT SOUTHERN PULLMAN" above window level in standard GSR coach lettering (gold shaded red and black). Later, possibly when repainted brown and cream they had just "PULLMAN". Once painted green, just plain standard CIE coach livery.

There's a pic of a line of derelict carriages at Naas, amongst which there's one - in one of those hard-backed colour albums produced a few years ago. I've seen pics in the IRRS - never, it has to be said, a good detailed one. In these days of uniform rakes of carriages, it's important for modellers to be aware that prior to the "supertrains", hardly any two carriages we're alike in a typical train. Pullman cars (of which there were only three) ran singly in different trains. I've never even seen a pic of even two together, and there weren't enough in existence to make a whole main line rake anyway. So in the pre-mass-produced-laminate days in the late 40s to mid 50s, you'd have a train made up of a mix of Bredins, early steel-sided CIE stock, wooden coaches of both bogie and six-wheel type, from GSWR, MGWR and DSER, and a single Pullman stuck in the middle.

Spot on,Mayner. I'm unaware of the later plans for the Woolwiches too, as jhb171snr.snr had retired by then, and jhb171snr. had by that stage defected (via a stint on the NCC) to the Great Northern! However, such pans would have made absolutely perfect sense. BR struggled post-1948 with a multiplicity of different designs and locos too. Had steam survived to today, we'd almost inevitably find a steam equivalent of today's locomotive stock - just two classes. There would be a main line type and an 0.6.0 or light 2.6.0. Nothing GSR would be left; the current stuff would probably have been designed and built in the sixties, and now reaching life's end, to be replaced by locos designed in the last few years! Steam survives still - just - in China, where in a country the size of seventeen universes, just two classes handle all steam hauled traffic. The QJ are big, SY small (and thus very prone to slipping....)

The various types of four wheelers mostly started out in all-silver. Mayner (I think) has pics of a model like that which looks excellent. The silver "livery" was actually an absence of any livery at all - the things weren't painted at all! Roofs, ends, chassis, drawgear, the lot - all unpainted. Many were painted the lighter green between about 1958 and 1963. Black'n'tan after that. Some aught from by now filthy silver to black'n'tan. As Garfield mentions, the six wheelers and all bogies were only black'n'tan.

The Irish Pullmans had vertical matchboard panelling below window level. If you get a British one with smooth sides, these might be scored on. The Irish ones, too, were built to the Irish loading gauge. Initially, they were in GSR maroon, but at least one - likely all three - also carried the short lived brown and cream with black lining for a time. They ended up in the darker CIE green (as on buses and green steam engines). They never had the light green.

The idea back then was prestige!

A certain amount of it was the need to standardise. Also, the 800s were being increasingly seen as an extravagance, despite their good fuel economy.

Now Ive got an avatar more like Garfield's!

Ah!! Pity. The only thing I could think of was SSM or Worsley kits.

No. The closest thing to that running in Ireland were a few NCC full parcel brakes (or TSP BSO THF or whatever BR fans call 'em!). All CIE genny vans were ex BR Mk 1, with several variations but same body design. The Dutch vans were straight sided, shorter and converted from Christmas Quality Street tins, except they were noisier inside. Then there were the various CIE 4 and 6 wheeled "tin vans" and "hot water bottles". In case anyone asks, apart from the 4 wheels, none were ever anything but black'n'tan. They arrived far too late to be green.

Eh?

Just posting my own avatar to compare.... Great (Southern) minds think alike.....

Since the trains in 1956 were the right way up, so is the pass!

What's the GSR stuff?

I was looking at a different pic, Glenderg.... The orange in those two above is much the same, as you'd expect.

I understand, Dive, that others have good running examples. Mine had never even operated before. I will post progress here.

In that pic, it's not so much two shades of orange, as one is faded.... There were several variations over the years, but only several (as with 1959s green), but the difference wouldn't have been anything like as stark as it appears to show. Just for clarity! Well, if Murphy's make a 121 in lime green and tartan, I'd still be interested. As long as it's genuine LLSR tartan, of course...

Very sad news indeed. I had a lot of correspondence with him through the Continental Railway Circle in the 1970s, and while I never met him, we exchanged many letters. An absolute gentleman and a very great loss indeed to the railway enthusiast community. May he rest in peace.

Not yet, Horsetan; that's in hand, though!

David, the mods here will all chip in for a ticket, eh Garfield?

Ah, maybe I wasn't clear, heustonconnolly, I didn't mean cross it over the Boyne. I meant stick in a set of points north of the river, as prototype on the level. You're right, that would look odd at best. Regarding the Navan branch, I wasn't clear where it would go after it reached (as on the plan) the extreme bottom right corner. It's getting into shape anyway. Your latest plan looks a lot better, but (as I'm finding right now with a thing of my own), proper scale drawings will answer many questions.