jhb171achill

Exactly. This is where accurate memories, paint samples and the like come in useful. Many of the railway coats of arms in Selwyn Johnston's Headhunters Railway Museum in Enniskillen are mounted on boards painted in actual railway paint. Police forces worldwide will tell us of the numerous times they have stood in court and watched tiresome arguments over what colour the car was which overtook the other one and caused the crash. Some people have extremely accurate memories for colour, down to the most subtle variations in shade, and can be relied on to say whether a modern interpretation is accurate or not. Other people have anything but! I am aware that the current grey on 186 was passed as absolutely right by at least two ex-Inchicore people with exceptional recall. Things like this need to be noted down for future generations. My own actual sample of it on my grandfather's O gauge model agrees. There's a lovely 00 gauge J15 model in a display case in the IRRS, in a very realistically weathered form. But it's black, and thus doesn't look right at all, which is a pity.

I suppose that in terms of looking for suitably accurate stock for a layout, a perusal of suppliers on here would serve well; Leslie's stuff and others represent the 1950-70 period well. Any of the colour album books published in the last 15 years will show prototypes, train make ups and liveries, so a look after that at, say, the Bachmann website, will show models of British stuff which is close enough to look right when repainted in CIE style. When looking at BR items, a repaint can fit in well with Irish stuff even if not 100% accurate. Even the basics of repainting black strapping and ironwork, and chassis in the body colour, will make things look instantly "Irish".

Yes, with oily rags, the right light, and soot, the grey could at times look (especially in black and white photos) as black or blackish. I saw two pics one time of a J15 on a train - possibly an enthusiast's special of some sort if memory serves me right - both taken of the same train in the same station on the same day; and by the same photographer. One, with the light right, is clearly grey, albeit dirty. The other side of the loco with the light a different way looks distinctly black! GNR blue was another colour which could look lighter at times, giving rise to the quite incorrect myth that Dundalk "just went down to the nearest paint shop". I actually knew the former Dundalk Works Manager very well, and he found that enthusiast-fuelled myth quite offensive, pointing out that they had their own paint laboratory in the works..... CIE green - particularly the later, lighter shade is notorious for appearing in numerous apparent varieties in olour photos. I am currently going through a collection of these for a future book, and in one photo I have, three green vehicles look, respectively, accurate green, navy blue and brown! ALL are CIE green!

The line of black chassis look so odd, though.....!

I did, Leslie, only getting round to commenting now! I agree entirely with you - it's tragic that such an utterly elementary error has shown up. Absolutely ridiculous.

No tank engines carried snails, and all cie narrow gauge engines were tank engines. Until about 1949 onwards, locos continued the GSR practice of cast numberplates painted over grey like the rest of the loco. Sometimes the numerals were picked out in cream or pale yellow, sometimes not at all. All narrow gauge locos under the GSR and CIE were all over grey, chimney, smokebox, cab, motion and wheels included. None got the black which a few 5ft 3 locos got very late in the day. So, it's plain grey for everything! After 1949, many locos had their numberplates removed and large painted pale yellow numerals placed on tank sides instead. Buffer beams were technically red, but many were in practice so weathered, faded and dirty that they were indistinguishable from the grey livery!

It's not a million miles away, burnthebox, but maybe a Porsche would require even a bigger budget than a model railway!

Surely to goodness the lining isn't red and WHITE? Are we looking at a Hornby British Railways engine? Ye gads. This is absolutely elementary stuff. Or does my befuddled mind play tricks on me? Has the gargle dimmed me brain?

Well done indeed - a rare relic. Livery wise, it bears no relation to anything that ever ran... In brown, the roof and chassis should also be brown. The CIE thing should be on the upper half, not the bottom corner. No wagon ever had lettering "CIE", let alone that size, and the numeral and mysterious "N" are not of this world either! But an interesting collectors item at a bargain price!

Unlike laminates and Park Royals, Bredins (and their early CIE copies) were old enough to have initially worn the darker green with broader light green stripes. Do, two green livery variations are possible for them, pre- and post-1955. Needless to say, they were never unpainted silver.

Wow! That's a strange one - hadn't seen that model before. What's it based on?

Interesting, junctionmad.... I only ever travelled the line once, and only as far as Kilmacthomas. It was the IRRS special with 190. I could have got a cab ride and it's a matter of great regret that I didn't take the opportunity.

That looks absolutely fantastic! There were a few GNR coaches, built about 1954, which looked not unlike that and which survived into UTA and CIE days. Obviously they were only three years old when the GNR was dissolved, and thus could have been expected to last until the mid or late 70s. They didn't - the timber used was very poor and no match for the rock solid GSWR wooden stock forty years older. But a few did last into black'n'tan days (and a few in UTA livery too). It also looks like one Bredin first class vehicle (I think it was no. 1900?). That's an exceptionally neat paint job.

I remember Senior171 telling me about that. It happened right in the station. I'm not sure what the train was, but you'd think that whoever told the men to go down onto the track would have been aware of the timetable! There's bound to be more to the story - I'd be interested to see the report.

We'll need a time machine for that.......

I'm curious as to why NIR still use the old NIR logo on them, as the "translink" brand has been on the go now for twenty years! I would have thought that they might have tried to incorporate them into their "corporate image" by painting them the current shade of darker blue, as on railcars for many years now, with the oval "Translink" thing!

Exactly! Loose-coupled, of course, needs a brake at the end.

There will come a day when people hark back to the old days when ICRs were still running, and Mayo and Galway still had railways, before the Limerick Junction - Rosslare - Gorey cycleway was opened, and before the Healy-Raes turned the Kerry line into a conveyor belt to get people to their pub in Kilgeee-arvan....

They're all connected...... look, for example, at Mk 2 or Craven formations. At the end of the journey there didn't swop the brake to the other end. This can also be seen today at Downpatrick.

Fully fitted trains can have the brake anywhere.

Aaaargh! I was five in 1962!

Excellent work.

A great looking little layout. Just shows big isn't needed to look well. Loads of action, well done!

With such a hotch potch of carriages in a typical CIE train in the 60s and 70s, a carriage like this will look very well sandwiched in among laminates, Cravens, Park Royals and Bredins - and the odd wooden coach.

With the model layout at the CDRRS, might there be some way of linking up? Just a random thought.....