jhb171achill

Dhu Varren, your analysis is exactly correct.

Absolutely brilliant, Ernie, a great find. Such instances were exceptionally rare indeed. In terms of generators, such trains had the converted Dutch vans.

It's always easy to forget these days that the vast majority of GNR locos were in fact black, not blue!

Cravens didn't do any vans at all - the vans that ran with them were originally six wheeled " hot water bottles", then after late 60s the "Dutch Vans" and ex-BR Mk 1 "genny vans". All three of these types also worked with other stock other than Mk 2 or Mk 3, which had their own vans. Cravens also worked with laminate conversion brake generator standards. Cravens and other non air conditioned types never ran in service with "supertrain" types, though a very small number of instances of older types being towed out of service behind a Mk 2 (but not Mk 3) set did occur.

I'm out on a five day tour, Dive!! Next time....... Gnash gnash.

Fantastic models!

Many thanks, folks. Yes, photos show them in front of very heavy loads - this can't have helped their unenviable reliability record!

You were dealing with cattle specials at Arigna Road, David, so that's OK; Maysfields advised via Enniskillen that you need to get the laden wagons to Enniskillen by 19:30..... "Lissadell" is in steam and ready.......

I've seen quite a few of David's pictures. They are absolutely stunning.

What's the best chassis to use for a "C"? Also, even if not best as such, what's the cheapest and easiest?

For general interest's sake, and of use to our colleagues building a layout based on Bantry, it may be of interest to know the regular C's on the West Cork system: these were - C202 C210 C217 C220 (Lined green after 1960) C224 C230 (Unlined green after July 1960) C231 (Lined green by November 1960) C232 C234 (Unlined green by mid 1960) All others thoroughly filthy "silver". In 1963, when they started painting them black'n'tan, a few were still silver - never went green. For our Bantry friends, (mods - is it possible to post this with Bantry as well?) the black Bandon Tank (No. 464) and green "C" class locos would bring in new interest if the layout is based about 1960/1, just before it closed, instead of in the fifties. It also allows railcars after 1954 - these would obviously not be accurate for, say, early fifties. This is all for the record, for those wanting accuracy. If I had a West Cork layout, I would also be happy to have black'n'tan 141s heading a couple of Cravens and a Dutch Van towards Skibbereen......!

I remember most of it, Noel! Oul Father Time......!! (And there are an increasing number of days when i feel it.........!)

You too Noel, and all here....

Noel, the various colour albums should show enough of them to get an idea. Basically, for A and C classes: 1. New - to early 1960s at latest: All over silver, bogies & roof included when new. Since this weathered worse than any livery in history, before or since, heavy weathering is obligatory to look realistic! Numbers in light green in ends and on mid sides. Metal Flying Snails light green attached, not just painted on. I have one somewhere. 2. 1960 or so, overlapping (dirty) silver, to 1963 - post-'55 lighter green with or without thin waistline light green band. Steel "snail" painted light green attached to sides, high up middle. Numbers in light green on ends and sides as before. 3. 1962: now we're into the black'n'tan era. Initially, full black'n'tan with waist high tan all round. Numbers on ends as before but in white. Side numbers small at ends. Then, all black. Some had CIE rounded on sides with small numbers at cab ends, others had a single large number in the middle and no roundel. Numbers on all black ends as before. Finally, some (not all) got the yellow panel with black number; other details as before. 4. After re-engining (if that's a real word) in late 60s / early 70s, a few initially with full height tan band, but most (and eventually all) with lower dipped tan band on side. Roundels and smaller numerals. 5. Post 1972, Supertrain livery. 6. For the A class, post-1987 Tippex livery. No Cs ever got this as they were all recently withdrawn. I think a C in tippex would have looked great! Re the grey / green era, there will be a book.................though it's going to be several years!

I must fish mine out and post a few items again. They really open up the day to day minutae of the grey/green and black'n'tan eras.

Is it just my computer or is it flickr - I find that looking up anything on that website is exceptionally slow to the extent that after 2 or 3 images it just slows to an unworkable speed.... any ideas?

Correct! Yellow only appeared in comparatively recent times. Grey was the rule without exception* in the 50s and 60s and early 70s, when (on CIE) brown (but NOT the current reddish-brown) began to appear. Latterly, yellow. (* This applied equally to GNR, NCC, UTA & CIE). Plough vans were the same colour as ballast wagons, goods brake vans and other general four wheeled bits'n'pieces. And not a black bit of metal strapping or black chassis in sight! :-)

Well done, Ernie. Your work is much appreciated by everyone. Those who misuse the copyright of others are a curse to serious researchers (and browsing enthusiasts) as it leads to collections being shut away even from those who have genuine reason for viewing. Hopefully, you will remain able to share as mentioned in your post. Very many thanks.

The railway stopped just short of the river bridge. Had it been extended towards loughrea - which was a one-time initial plan - it would have crossed over. The resultant Ballybrophy - Attymon secondary route would have made a fascinating study for a potential layout, with MGWR and GSWR locos likely to have shared trains post-1925.... Had such a line survived into CIE days, it is likely that it might have outlived Roscrea-Limerick!

C class locos and railcars will fit in well with the sole black Bandon tank; 1958 it is! It's great to see the grey-green era now getting the attention that the black'n'tan and Supertrain eras have in recent years.

Wow! A thing of beauty - but what else would we expect!!

Is it 00 or N gauge?

Had a delve at livery records in view of your enthusiasm about a black 464! Yes, it was 464, but I had also forgotten about 467, which was painted unlined green for DSER services. In traffic in the fifties, there were six of these engines. (465 & 469 had been scrapped in 1945). These were: 463 - grey 464 - black after 1958 466 - grey 467 - painted green, but unlined, and sent to Dublin for suburban work. 468 - grey 470 - grey All others, 90, 100, and ex MGWR and GSWR locos were grey from the late 1920s until withdrawn between 1959 and 1961. The green one did appear from time to time in Cork, and while I have no record of it going onto the CBSCR system in the 50s, it might have done. With 464 in black, you're looking at 1958-61. If early 50s is preferred, then everything is grey, and you'll get away without railcars! Incidentally, in terms of wagons, the West Cork system had many very elderly antiques right to the end. Those brass kits of "soft-tops" would be appropriate, and many a cattle truck would be needed.

Best I did behind steam was a 70 mile stretch on the footplate of a 5ft 6in gauge "WP" class streamlined 4.6.2 west of Lucknow, at a steady 88 miles per hour in India in 1979. The power of those things was supernatural - he had TWENTY ONE heavily loaded bogies behind him, though it was all level...... And the famous 84 mph with No. 4 from Attymon to Ballinasloe some time in the early 1990s. As our youthful colleagues here might say, "hellfire"; but not a wretched diesel in sight!

Leslie - I'll discuss with Norman when I see him!!!!! Maybe you, he and I might meet soon, in a carriage behind her.....