jhb171achill

I've seen pics taken in the Harcourt Street area in the early fifties showing a siding of spare stock for the line - all Midland six wheelers and a GSWR bogie, as far as I could make out. Even in the late fifties, I've seen a photo of an AEC set with one of these Midland six wheelers tagged onto the end. A photo of a suburban train at Killiney in the 50s shows a mix of just about everything, but as far as I could see only one vehicle was a "native". This is interesting for anyone modelling the Dublin area in this period.

To go back to the original post, it's theoretically possible, of course, that a brown van might have ended up somewhere unusual, but it would be an exception, a one-off. Immediately after the GNR was split up in 1958, a GNR coach, still in brown, ended up for a very short time on - of all places - the West Cork system. I have a photo of a DSER goods van in a siding at Achill, and I saw a pic once of a CIE wagon in a train on the Larne line in the early 1960s.

Yes...... look at photographs of a train in CIE days on a former MGWR or GSWR route, and you'll see more than a few carriages of the original companies, interspersed with Park Royal, laminates and Bredins. But on the DSER, the older stock is as likely to be GSWR origin as anything. And, of course, it was a smaller company than the Midland or GSW in the first place.

jhb171 Senior recalled quite a few GSWR six wheelers on the Harcourt Street line as early as the late 1920s, which would certainly fit well with the idea of the "native" coaches not being in the best order. One might guess that the GSR withdrew some DSER coaches more or less straight away.

DSER stock seems to have been much less successful at surviving than GSWR or MGWR stuff...

I'm completely with you, Leslie; I, too, am now the proud owner of a magnified slide viewer, glasses, and a magnifying glass! I agree, a visit south of Belfast in ncc days, or portadown in UTA days, by a "brown van" is highly unlikely, and certainly not south or west of Dublin.

That's the GSWR's erstwhile Farranfore - Valentia line, closed in 1960. Highly scenic indeed.

I was several years off becoming a bump!

Absolutely brilliant job!

Indeed, Wrenn! Worth hanging on to!

Completed - and appreciated.

Going through Senior's stuff, an old handwritten note in pencil on a bit of exercise book paper, looks like they were scribbled down during a couple of railway journeys, way back in the 1930s...... "Points replaced by GS at bridge beyond Maynooth Coach 2115 seen, wagon 23062 9001 Saw 378 at Donamon, saw 375 at Athlone 628 350 176" Another note tracks a car journey, with timings given at Lusk, an AA Box, Swords, Cloghran etc, all the way from Rush, in north Co. Dublin, to Ballsbridge. The journey took fifty minutes "via Butt Bridge and South Wall". There was no port tunnel then - nor was there much traffic! Even so, that was fairly getting a move on, given the way the roads were then.... Any retired gardai reading this, avert your eyes....

Mr Nelson, as Chairman of the LNER, I offer you a job as head of our wagon building works. I know there's a bit of a commute involved though, and do remember we are narrow gauge over here......

The weathering is spot on, Nelson. In late UTA days - which you mention as your period, no amount of weathering is too much; any wagons remaining in traffic were almost all, cosmetically speaking, in as awful a state as anything on rails ever has been!

By road, though, it's a shorter distance. While I agree with Weshty, I think that a top speed of 100mph isn't enough. When you allow your an average four to five intermediate stops, you'd need a cruising speed (not "top" speed) of 125 mph to compete with road. Not only on the Cork line, but also on the Galway and Belfast lines. Ideally, on the Mayo road, Waterford line, Athenry to Limerick and the South Eastern too, but that's never going to even be considered.

Well, I say skateboards for everyone!

Having seen the kit, and having made a first-attempt complete mess of a brass carriage kit I bought thirty years ago, I would advise very strongly indeed against using one of these kits as a first attempt at soldering.... I would very much echo the advice given by others. The 800 kit is a highly complex one which I know many experienced modellers would hesitate to attempt. Good luck, though.

It's a fantastic looking thing. I got one too, currently under construction (not by me; I'd make a pig's ear of it).... If I win the lottery, I'll get another four: 800-2 plus the two that were never built (803 Deirdre and 804 Grainne). Wouldn't a lineup of five of them outside Inchicore have made for a great photo? Photoshop anyone?

Now I've got this weekend sorted out. I'm getting a train to Kirley Junction and bringing my camera and a sandwich for the day. Do I depart from Connolly, Heuston, or Broadstone?

No probs, Mike. I'm away from early tomorrow until Wednesday afternoon, so I'll scan them then and send to you.

Quite possibly, josefstadt, though when 836 came to the DCDR I'm nearly sure it had a loo, which was removed. Both it and 837 were to the sme era as the ones you mention, so many similarities would be evident. I noticed the windows indeed, which made me think it was a third one which made it into departmental stock. It's possible it wasn't from the same batch as the other two. Several GSWR coaches of this era ended up as late as 1974 being among CIE's very last wooden rake of carriages, which I'm sure you remember well - obviously (for younger readers!) long black'n'tan by this stage! It would be interesting to know when that picture was taken.

Excellent stuff.

Excellent info, indeed. Just as CIE inherited a motley collection of stock from its constituent companies, so did the UTA. They had ex GNR stuff including ex-DNGR and even one LNWR coach which the GNR had bought, NCC stuff of Belfast construction (Irish loading gauge) and items built for the NCC in Derby to Irish loading gauge (new) and the narrower and lower British dimensions, in the case of things imported after the Blitz. Much older stock from the NCC section was the distinctive straight-sided BNCR stock, itself swallowed up by the MR(NCC) in 1905. The UTA also had ex-BCDR items of bogie and 6w variety, including a rake of bogies built at York Road to BCDR order, which owed more to NCC design than BCDR! The point here is that if you want to turn a proprietary coach into a general UTA or CIE steam era coach just by repainting, the sky's the limit. If you prefer to model something very exact, there's many a kit or model that can be "bashed" to produce a pleasing result.

Number 22 entered service in 1948 in crimson lake, whether LMS or NCC remains to be seen. The rest entered service in 1949 and 1950 in UTA green. The NCC used standard LMS maroon, so there was no difference. The differences between LMS livery (in Britain, obviously) and here, were that the NCC used either "NCC" or, more usually, "LMS NCC" instead of plain LMS; crests at the time this coach had been discontinued whereas on the LMS they were generally carried, and lining here was less common than across the pond. A coach painted in York Road as late as 1948 wouldn't have been lined.

Interesting photo, Dhu Varren. Any idea when it was taken? The livery is NCC, which differed slightly from LMS in many cases. Lining, especially on secondary stock, was often simpler or non existent, as on this, and crests were often absent especially after wartime economy kicked in. The coach number, 22, would be an NCC one - an LMS one probably had about five digits!