jhb171achill

It's easy to come across as reactionary, and unable to understand the youth, or forget that "ah, sure, we were all young once" But, by God, if most of us on here got up to half what a tiny minority of people do now with absolute impunity because "they've a hard upbringing", "they've a drug habit" or "they have a really old iPhone and their friends laugh at them", we would have faced sanctions which would make us too afraid to even contemplate doing it again. Crime figures were a fraction, because there was a deterrent. Today there's little deterrent to crime. I'm away to rob a few houses. I need to fund a holiday because sure it's me right, isn't it!

I hope this gathers the momentum it deserves and indeed, points to a new way in Derry. That is - voluntary bodies, not ill informed and uninterested local councillors.

Excellent stuff.....! Pat - the white lining "was just far away". Ted told me. And me camera's fine - I was just standing on my head when I scanned those old pictures.......

There you have it. I'm inclined to think that they were delivered with white, but Inchicore possibly decided that due to the obvious lack of definition, black lining ought to be added. That would make perfect sense. I can't remember offhand which one (or maybe two) got red buffer beams while carrying grey livery, but this would again indicate experimentation to get the right look. Around the same time, an "A" and a "C" class received, experimentally, a yellow © and orange (A) buffer beam. This was in the early days of black'n'tan. So perhaps, mystery solved. We'll all have seen a picture of 019 in Inchicore in the mid 90s with just one end done up in an experimental orange, black and yellow livery which was to become the basis for the initial 201 livery, and in more recent times a Mk 3 with one end in two tone green - experiments for the Drogheda railcars. It's a bit like modelling - you can paint something to see how it looks, but in case it's going to be wrong it's maybe better to practice the colour on some old vehicle body first! The UTA, in their very early days, painted a number of steam locomotives in differing shades of green to see what they'd be like, before settling for lined black. One "Jeep", I think it was No. 5, ended up in a shade not unlike that applied in more recent times to locomotives in the Isle of Man. I always wondered how that would have looked on the few GNR 4.4.0's they repainted, or on a BCDR tank, let alone a Jeep!

I have to say that while I've seen better liveries overall - really, artistically speaking, nothing since the orange / black era has proved lasting and strong enough as a brand - this one's a lot better than the ghastly drabness the Enterprise has had in all its (few!) variations since inception....

Mike - I've another of those 4w bodies if it's any use to you.

92 60 0310 206-4 Is that including the international dialling code? When I rang it, I got nothing. So I reckon that's it's fax number.

I would agree with both. It's all very well when they match a loco to a train but hit'n'miss otherwise. Why they can't just keep everything orange and black I don't know! :-)

To such extent as it allows, Broithe, there seems to me a lighter tint right round the edges. I've seen it on other pics too - but I've also seen convincing evidence of black, not only on locos, but the yellow and grey touring coaches too.

I knew it!! Some time ago, someone posted a pic of a model 121 (and an excellent job it was too); I questioned the fact that the logo transfers for this were edged in black, as my recollection was that they should be white. A white-lined "snail" and numerals would have a very different look to a black lined one. I went off delving and found a photo of a loco in this livery with very very fine black edging to the yellow logo and numerals. The above shows white. Thus; we have not one, or two, but THREE variations of this grey and yellow livery. We have photographic (and in the case of white, eye-witness) evidence of locomotives having numerals and snails lined black, and also lined white! This in addition to the already-known variation which was that at least one or two of the class had the grey buffer beams repainted standard red, which, having seen it in a colour photo, I personally think looks a bit odd. A quick look at what photos I can find suggests that most of the class, or perhaps for more of the time, white edged lettering was the norm. What makes it so unusual is that they only wore this livery until first repaint. They were delivered in the early 60s, yet by 1969 all were black and tan. Thus, it's not as if they were repainted several times in grey, allowing variations to creep in: the variations were concurrent. Imagine an exhibition layout with three 121s, each with a different variation on grey..... three shades, though, not fifty.

My gut feeling would be there could have been policy changes.

Haha true, Wrenn, but they had a proper tam network back then... The "Leap" card was done with your legs too..... Talking of trams and city transport, I have some London General Omnibus tickets for sale - must photo them and post them up here....

That is an absolutely superb kit.

There you have it; this is how historical research pans out. We now can be certain that Bazin, Bredin and McDonnell were Shels supporters, while Bullied was northside roaring "up the Dubs"!!!! ;-)

Broithe, that's either me or my twin brother, or else his twin brother......

Interesting point, Mayner - I never thought of that. Family recollections of Edgar Bredin were that he kept himself very much to himself, as did others of his colleagues. They seemed to go into the works, do their work and go home - certainly in my grandfather's time I got the impression that most of the drawing office and design people, and those among the most senior levels of management didn't seem to socialise. Maybe it's because there was no Copper Face Jack's or Temple Bar......

No end to your talents, josefstadt! How do you do that anyway? If it's a process suitable for simpletons, I'll have a go myself! Incidentally, I think the photo was taken at Clones. Senior was carrying out the annual inspection of Omagh - Fintona - Bundoran - Enniskillen - Clones - Portadown - Belturbet - Cavan - Dundalk via Cootehill and Carrickmacross. I've an idea I've notes on the actual jaunt, or some of it, somewhere. Will post when I find it if there's anything of substance.

1939, 1959, 1974 & 1975 timetables claimed.

Stamps claimed now.

Thanks, Dive. 11th May 1987 (green one) and 15 May 1995 now claimed, folks.

For sale, old WTTs, €10 each plus postage.

For sale: enclosed mint condition, €10 including postage. PM me.

1948 report now claimed. But the Cullybackey lot have been restrained; they decided to come in quietly via the GNR, but sure haven't they gone and closed Keady to Castleblayney. Them oul diesel-laundering mountainy men. Looks like a lock-in down Keady way tonight. Here are some WTTs, free but for postage. 2.4.73 Suburban 9.6.74 3.3.75 (tattered, but includes the likes of Loughrea, New Ross and Ballinacourty. 27.6.77 8.5.78 12.5.80 29.6.81 11.5.87 - Irish Rail's first. Set of points logo. 18.5.92 15.5.95

Well, we know of the GNR and its attractive 4.4.0's like 171, 131 or 197. So, just for a change, here's the N G Railway's No. 791 with its Director's Saloon about 1953. It's on an inspection trip, utilising the set of steps specially constructed to let the inhabitants down onto the track via the gangway. I wonder what became of the steps? In all its back-to-front printed glory, here it is.

I know that political comment is barred from IRM, but here goes! Vote for P T Somerville-Large! Sure, he's the GSR's Civil Engineer in Westland Row, don't ye know? If the mods ban me for canvassing, you'll know they support dem udder wans. This is post-free, and cost-free, to whoever wants it. The then equivalent of junk mail - it was a blotter! Postcard size. The reverse of this one is unused blotting paper, and was picked up by Senior in the GSR Drawing Office, where the hopeful candidate had been handing them out! The back: being unused, the mirror images of neither GSR nor Senate secrets are included; buyer supplies and installs their own. Like the impending introduction of 450 class tins on the Kenmare branch, and the military invasion of the Irish Free State by three Orangemen from Cullybackey. Remember where ye heard it first. There's a scoop for the Longford Leader.....