jhb171achill

When I get a minute to do so, I'll scan in a photo of the type of thing Dundalk considered buying from NB. I agree with you, Mayner, NB probably would have been a bad buy. After inclusion into the UTA and CIE, neither company had anything by NB and the GNR diesels would soon have fallen victim to Inchicore's distrust (for good reasons!) of anything non-GM. It's interesting to speculate that in the light of the re-engining of the A and C classes, would CIE have opted to re-engine NB products (the "H" class?). Would the UTA have prolonged the Derry Road, or goods in the north, or just switched any locos they got to the NCC? In which case, the all-railcar status of the NCC and the CDR-like haulage of the Derry goods by railcar wouldn't have happened! Would one or two have been in use in only recent years on Poyntzpass ballast trains? Would they have monopolise the Enterprise until 201-class tines, thus eliminating the need for the 70 class sets, certainly the (unsuccessful) Hunslets, and 111-3? Back to the original point of this thread - how would a NB loco look in black'n'tan!!!

A rare exception to the grey all over locos and freight stock was the Cavan & Leitrim's ballast wagon. The C & L painted it yellow (all over). In these days virtually everything used for maintenance is yellow, but prior to 1970 this was unknown. But - the C & L did it - and the GSR continued it. The wagon had standard "G S" markings in black on the yellow background. CIE used grey later on.

How much will they be? Just had a look on the IFM website, and it shows the black'n'tan one - WOW! I'll be looking for one green, one BnT... Perhaps IFM might comment on cost and availability, also are there any Park Royals left? PM me if necessary.

There was also, at one time, a proposal to make the Arigna - Dromod section broad gauge for the carriage of coal, and another investigation into automated unloading of narrow gauge wagons into broad gauge ones at Dromod. There were also plans for five B1a's, not three. 803 was to be called Deirdre, and 804 Grainne. For the DSER section, three 4.6.2 tank engines, huge beasts not unlike a tank version of an 800, were also planned, and got to drawing stage. Limerick Junction was investigated with a view to making it into a "proper" station, with the convoluted bay platform arrangements scrapped, and a down platform installed on the main line. None was proceeded with. Meanwhile, north, the GNR were perusing brochures from numerous diesel manufacturers in the early fifties; I've one beside me here from North British. Again, a lack of ££££ put paid to it all.

Correct, Horsetan. Plans were made at one stage (jhb171achill's grandfather's period at Inchicore) for a standard series of new narrow gauge coaches, for example. They were intended for the West Clare and C & L; possibly also the T & D if it were to survive. Both Cork lines and the Schull and Skibbereen were not included as they were either closed, or proposed for closure. These were to be not unlike C & L stock in length and class of accommodation, but would have looked more modern externally. Sadly, a shortage of halfpennies, sixpences, shillings farthings and thruppeny bits resulted in their never even reaching the drawing board (otherwise I'd probably have a copy of the drawing!). Numerous plans for fleets of new road freight vehicles were also stalled at planning level, as were many locomotive and coach proposals.

The SLNCR stuff tended to be at the far right, probably out of sight in this picture. By this stage, the railcar "B" or the railbus would have been almost the only SLNCR stuff about there during the daytime. Mayner is right regarding the 2.4.0s - they were used as station pilots right until the last one was withdrawn, as late as 1963. The passenger train could well have still been steam hauled in 1956 - steam persisted on some, but by no means all, trains serving Sligo quite late on.

Are those planes narrow or broad gauge? (Running for cover...,.,.!) :-)

Kirley, that's an outstanding and extremely valuable piece of research and documentation; I am sure all here will be highly grateful for it, and interested in it. In terms of "snails" on green coaches, the darker green (pre-55) always had them, but once the lighter green appeared, snails were initially applied, but many later repaints after silver stock was being repainted, didn't have them (though they did have the lining). For design reasons, Park Royals never had snails.

But Valencia's in Spain...... (Sorry; J runs for cover....) Absolutely stunning layout, though. Very realistic.

Second photo; behind the PR's, a GSWR suburban brake third, then more Park Royals, though (unusually) in the order darker green. Park Royals never had "snails" due to the bar along the middle. Other carriages generally did with pre-1955 darker green, but when the lighter green cane in, some did and some didn't, as in the Bredins in photo 1. The dark green on the Park Royals above suggest they are among the earliest ones.

Providing the carriages were all the same type, mixes of pre- and post- "tippex" would appear in the same train. I remember seeing, on more than one occasion, a Mk 2 in "Galway" livery in a train of identical coaches but in "normal" livery.

At the risk of Garfield permanently banning me from IRM, I'll make a horrible confession. I am the solitary individual, in all of world history, who actually liked the "desert sand" livery...... Even.....and I'm plucking up all my courage to say this - on the solitary "half-cab" which bore it for not much more than a week, and which I saw one evening on the 90 route at Heuston Station, having got out of the cab of an "A" class from Tralee......

In comparison, over almost fifty years, 141s had basically two liveries, albeit the second one with three logos, the last in two different sizes, as well as with / without "tippex" white lines!

201s must be the most decorated Irish locos ever. So, quiz question, what can equal this? 1. Original orange / black / yellow 2. Later version with larger yellow patch 3. Original "Enterprise" 4. NIR variation on above 5. Second (current) "Enterprise" 6. New "Enterprise" silver and black (just as 071s are losing silver and black!) 7. Green and grey "Intercity" 8. NIR all-blue and soon, 9. Belmond day-glo tartan..... .... all within twenty years!

Navy blue, red buffer beam, white body line.

Did a bit of research on "snails" on the grey 121s. Apart from the grey and yellow touring coaches at about the same time, these were definitely the only yellow snails. There does indeed appear to have been an extremely fine lining round them. It was not white as I thought but either a darkish grey of black as Irishrailwayman suggested above. Reproducing this lining on a model would be difficult as it was indeed very fine, rendering it virtually invisible in most photographs.

Wow! Excellent stuff! Better not let T C Courtney, the UTA general manager see, or somebody will be told off for leaving a van door open!

Well said, Burnthebox.

Just to show solidarity with free press, freedom of speech, and support for France currently. To fatwa-issuers, fundamentalists and bigoted fanatics worldwide, whatever you seek to censor, silence, or force into following your twisted beliefs: go to hell. You will NOT silence the free press.

The Castle class followed a similar story in later life, but were delivered too late for maroon and blue. They started off in a base colour of cream, with a deep red round the windows, day-glo warning panels (as opposed to yellow) and a thick orange line under the windows. It looked quite well when clean, but tended not to stay that way. 70 class sets spent much of their life in maroon and grey, but ended up in maroon and blue. And then we had the MPDs. UTA green, with grey round cab windows, green with wasp stripes, maroon and grey, and a few later ones (but not all) maroon and blue.

1. Lifelong interest in railways, encouraged by a small Hornby train set when I was 11. 2. The unfolding of a mini-world as the layout us built and developed. 3. When I can, but that actually isn't anything like as often as I would like. 4. Currently, no more than a couple of hundred euros, but this is because following a house move, all layout activity is on hold: I need to build a new one..... Hope this helps....

I'd guess its a two car set. What intrigues me, though, is what is behind the "A" class beside the loco shed. Looks like a six wheeled MGWR coach, but with a roof profile more normally found in bogies. If so, it's a rare survivor, as only a few six wheelers were built this way and I wasn't aware that any were still about in 1960.

It would indeed, Mayner. With a "C" in working order there now as well, it adds to the possibilities, as does the "H" van.

I see it was daubed as being preserved by the RPSI... as one of the RPSI carriage brigade at the time, that's the first I ever heard of it! It would have been a worthy mate for a DCDR "G" these days.... G613, at Downpatrick, was actually one of the most regular "G"'s on the Loughrea branch.

Jawfin, the refurbished sets had the now-familiar red seating in them, and cream walls originally with some decorative vinyls on them. Prior to that, they had what in 1974 was standard British Rail checked blue upholstery and mock-woodgrain effect walls up to luggage rack level, with an off-white ceiling. Externally, they received the same maroon and blue livery at first repaint, but with a white "diamond" instead of an upturned "v". Later - I'd guess about 1981 - they got the all-grey with maroon band under window level. Those on loan to IE retained that livery much longer, as by the time the last car painted that way (69, I think), came back to NIR, everything was beginning to be "intercity" blue and grey. Next up was the "suburban" red and cream with orange stripe: I think this was about the time the "Castles" were introduced into traffic - 1986. Some 80 class sets were thus painted, but others got the original (and best looking) blue and grey, with the following: from bottom up, a darker grey band at the bottom of the bodyside, main below-window area light grey, then a yellow / white / black / white band, then blue round windows, light grey line above, and dark grey roof. The red and cream livery, which did not suit 80 class cars at all, didn't last and railcars painted this way were gradually put into the intercity version. To separate intercity and suburban "fleets" on a tiny system such as NIR was clearly impractical. Later livery variations (approx 2001 onwards) saw the acquamarine band replace the yellow, black and white below window level, along with the continuation of the blue up to roof level (i.e. no grey band above windows). Then, latterly, we had the quite ghastly re-incarnation of these sets in "red bull" livery - quite the most stomach churning match of livery and vehicle I've ever seen. Oh no, that's the sandpit (sorry, sandite) yellow.....