jhb171achill

On the other side they had no windows at all, just the door at the end (left hand side, looking at it broadside). They were the same loading gauge dimensions as standard CIE template of the day. The only vans of any sort that have been narrower are the "BR" vans, as a result of having been built to BR loading gauge. At least one or two of these 4w PO vans was latterly converted to a brake / genny van. One was still kicking about Heuston / Inchicore until within the last few years, converted for use in the spray train. I would imagine that it is scrapped now.

Excellent stuff - the filthy and vandalised 141 looks SO realistic! (Sad to have to say!) .. I'd check the house from top to bottom for that grifter character..... :-)

Mr Claus can be very accommodating - even on New Year's Day.... :-)

I stand corrected, garfield; my famiiliarity with them has been entirely on this side of the water! :-) Incidentally, the one at Downpatrick, 3189, shows old Southern Region green paint under its black'n'tan.

Deepest sympathies, anthony, to you and your family.

In steam days, Patrick, probably. I don't think it applied to diesel days. The few phots I have seen of this area post-1955 show the likes ofn a dirty looking A class struggling along - and indeed one with a J15 steam engine on its own, albeit with a light load. But for a model - anything's possible.

It's the Multyfarnham to Iceland all-stopper.

I wonder if the IRRS might loan its premises?

Totally right, Josefstadt. G class locos never pulled Cravens. Very occasionally, excursions ran into or out of Loughrea hauled by a main line loco which may have included the odd Craven, though personally I've never seen any pic of any Craven coach even in such a formation. Had a Craven run with a "G", it would have had to have had a genny van. In summer when heating or lighting mighn't have been needed, both 4 and 6 wheel genny vans, or Dutch or BR vans, simply fulfilled the role of guards or parcel vans. BR vans, before conversion, were standard British Rail Mk 1 full passenger brakes, like any Hornby model based on a UK prototype.

Gareth - they did look superb when brand new in blue! Talk of wagon colours prompted me to also remember the Asahi tanks - has anyone modelled them? The flat wagons were silver all over, and the tanks on them were silver with the rectangular frames in bright red. They also looked very striking.

I would echo all comments above. It just brings memories flooding back seeing these vans. I remember one trip I did from Limerick to Ballina in the one daily train which was two laminates and one of those 4 wheeled vans - and it looked distinctly lopsided that day for some reason. For the experts here on weathering (and there are more than a few judging by pics), these vans tended to be somewhat dirtier than passenger carrying vehicles, which in CIE days were always kept very clean, as were locos. For the generation immediatly before the "tin vans", the then equivalent (behind a steam engine) was often a dilapidated old 6 wheel full brake with ducket. These could be of DSE, GSW or MGWR origin, and you'd see one tagged onto trains of even the most modern (laminate / Park Royal) stock. Tin vans, however, were also to be seen on steam trains when new (dirty / silver livery), often with an equally dilapitated old wooden bogie composite!

Not sure about length of rakes, but the colour changed at first repainting. Having said that, while blue most of them gradually got so dirty tyou could hardly tell what colour they were - just like today (but without the graffiti). I have to add that I'd happily electrocute anyone who puts graffiti on anything at all, railway or otherwise!

Excellent idea - I can visualise a dirty silver "A" and a long line of loose-coupled wagons rattleing along there... and an AEC railcar on the passenger! I had plans at one stage of a similar thing based on Newcastle West - the two lines leaving it would be a helix themselves to a train leaving for Tralee would eventually come back in from Limerick! Somewhere out on the helix would be Barnagh. Maybe I'll get a start made on it SOME day!

Probably of interest to modellers is when exactly those lines started appearing? I think the white edging on platforms long pre-dates the yellow lines, which I would (wildly) guess became widespread within the last 10-15 years?

Correct on all counts! And add to that the mud off the beet itself. Wagons were really a nondescipt dirt shade. Talk about fifty shades of grey!

Yes, that would be good and is a work in progress. The DCDR has a long-standing very good relationship with the ITG in such matters. The ITG owns (as you would know) 4 of the 7 diesels there, and a future visit of a "C" class or a "121" would certainly be do-able. Personally, I'd love to see a C there (or should that be to C a see?).

Yes, Anthony. Dunluce Castle and BCDR 30 were painted in their original liveries by the UTA under the direction of the late Harold Houston, whose knowledge of all things NCC and BCDR was encyclopaedic. They can therefore be taken as absolutely accurate - more than can be said, sadly, for many things the museum have repainted themselves. 800 was accurate in CIE green until the museum added the GSR initials on the tender - it should be a flying snail for that livery. However, 800 was painted in Inchicore before being taken north, so the green paint and lining is authentic CIE. The Donegal stock in the museum is also accurate, as it is actually the livery they were taken out of traffic in. The Castlederg coach is not at all accurate, and while the colour on the Cavan & Leitrim coach is accurate enough GSR maroon, the lettering most certainly isn't right! But, as a friend of mine who works there mentioned one time, it's better an item survives in the wrong livery, than doesn't survive at all!

Hidden Agenda, that's an officially made model by / for NIR - very accurate in al details and a must to see for anyone modelling one of these engines.

Yes. She was never black, but when built almost certainly battleship grey. She was repainted at some stage in standard CIE green, lined in black and white. This livery may be seen on 800 in Cultra. Drew Donaldson's models, fascinating as they were, did not employ authentic liveries, nor the correct shade of CIE green. Having said that, they looked very well! On the subject of Cultra, there are many significant livery inaccuracies there too, despite being a museum. Apart from 800 being in CIE green but with G S markings, the goods brake has black and white markings on the ducket (should be yellow and black) and the GSWR gunpowder van is the wrong colour and has the wrong lettering, in the wrong style!

Ah Heirflick, a photo shopped 141 / 181 (or a 121?) in NIR Enterprise maroon would be a REAL talking point!

True, Anthony. I know there are several here beyond my time; and also a few younger than my youngest offspring... which is great. That's what is so good about this hobby, and of railways in general. I spent last evening in the company of a friend whose dad and my own dad would have known each other on IRRS trips in the fifties.... my nephew is now involved with real-life preservation and also has a black'n'tan era layout.....

I see that "griff" character has been sneaking about your house at night! :-)

WOW!! That looks amazing! Superb

Yes, indeed, Minister, it was. It started life on the Castleisland Railway Company - it is not known whether they had a livery of their own for their only locomogtive, but it would have been painted in GSWR colours after only a few years. The appropriate version of GSWR livery for that time is what it now carries in Downpatrick. The precise scheme was obtained from a large scale model built at Inchicore around tha time (of a GSW 2.4.0) and presented to the Institute of Mechanical Engineers in London, where it resides to this day, and may be viewed by appointment. It would subsequently have acquired the later version of lining with the same dark green - this was cream and black. After about 1905 it would have been repainted black with red lining, and probably retained this after its 1915 rebuild into its current state. The grey started to appear about 1918 and quickly spread to most GSW locos, and to all GS ones after 1925. When 90 was withdrawn it was painted the way you (and I) remember it. This was a reonable approximation of an earlier GSWR livery, as carried on No. 36 in Cork station. That lighter green seems to have been replaced by the dark olive green about 1870 - before 90's time. 90 first went on display in its post-withdrawal scheme at Fermoy, and later to Mallow. It is DCDR's intention to keep it as it is. Basically the loco is in working order, but it needs a boiler lift for insurance and a number of small adjustments made before it re-enters traffic, though this will come abouit in due course. There are several youtube clips of it in traffic, one showing it fully lined in late 1870s style.

Eiretrains, you never know what you might see at Downpatrick in the future!! :-) Yes, I prefer the maroon and blue too. The light blue and grey, and the lighter blue on Hunslets (and, for that matter, 111s) was somewhat drab. Interesting to speculate what a trio of 181s would have looked like in maroon, if NIR had gone for them!