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CIE 6 wheel coach numbering

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NirateGoel
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Hi all,

Just looking for a bit of information regarding the numbering of 6 wheel coaches in CIE passenger service.

  • What range of numbers were used?  
  • Was there a pattern to the numbering, or was it somewhat random? (E.g. 1st being one range of numbers, 3rds being another range, etc.)
  • Any suggestions for suitable numbers for 4 wheeled coaches? (yes I know not prototypical blah blah blah)
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6 minutes ago, NirateGoel said:

Hi all,

Just looking for a bit of information regarding the numbering of 6 wheel coaches in CIE passenger service.

  • What range of numbers were used?  
  • Was there a pattern to the numbering, or was it somewhat random? (E.g. 1st being one range of numbers, 3rds being another range, etc.)
  • Any suggestions for suitable numbers for 4 wheeled coaches? (yes I know not prototypical blah blah blah)

@jhb171achill did a good thread explaining the difference between the numbers on 6 wheelers 

 

I remember that the letter detiermined there origions (coaches marked B came from the CB&SCR) ect.

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8 minutes ago, NirateGoel said:

Hi all,

Just looking for a bit of information regarding the numbering of 6 wheel coaches in CIE passenger service.

  • What range of numbers were used?  
  • Was there a pattern to the numbering, or was it somewhat random? (E.g. 1st being one range of numbers, 3rds being another range, etc.)
  • Any suggestions for suitable numbers for 4 wheeled coaches? (yes I know not prototypical blah blah blah)

Numbers allocated at the amalgamation in 1925 by the GSR remained unchanged throughout CIE times.

Ex-GSWR carriages, numbered from 1 to 1290-something retained their numbers unaltered. Former Waterford, Limerick & Western Railway stock had already been taken into GSWR following that earlier amalgamation in 1901; all ex-WLWR stock was renumbered by the GSWR in the 900 to low 1000s series. Thus, a WLWR coach numbered, say, 98, might become GSWR 904 (numbers made up!), which would still be 904 as a "GSWR" vehicle after the 1925 amalgamation, and would retain that number up to scrapping in a weedy siding in Mullingar in 1962!

Since four wheeled carriages like the long-wheelbase British ones never ran here at all, numbers for any ration 4w kits can be anything you'd prefer. Shorter wheelbase four wheelers on all lines here died out by 1890, bar about a dozen on the Midland which survived into the first decade of the 20th century; I believe a single one lasted until the 1920s - however, these were of a design no more like anything you can get in kits as ICRs are to an Australian coal wagon! However, I would give a 4-wheeler a random low number. If it is the Ration kit you're thinking of - and that's simply an assumption of mine - it is of a GWR prototype with bowed-in ends, like many Midland of England / LMS carriages, and more than a few on the Somerset & Dorset. While curved-in ends were commonplace in Britain, especially on the GWR & LMS, they were entirely unknown in Ireland apart from the WLWR - so if you're getting something like that, I'd be inclined to take it as a former WLWR coach, thus no letter suffix as it would have become GSWR stock in 1901. Number it 900-something....913, 908, 922, etc.

Ex-MGWR carriages also retained their numbers, with "M" added; thus a MGWR coach numbered 67 became 67M. the MGWR had a separate numbering system for each TYPE of coach, unlike the other companies. Therefore, there could be two carriages with the same number in a train, one being first class coach No. 14 (say), and next to it third no. 14. 

Ex-CBSCR stock gained the suffix "B" (for "Bandon"). Railwaymen in those days referred to the lengthily-titled Cork, Bandon & South Coast Railway simply as "the Bandon", as they called the Great Southern & Western the "Southern", and the Midland Great Western Railway the "Midland".

Former Dublin & South Eastern stock had "D" added - again, what the DWWR / DSER had as coach no. 34 was now 34D.

In the offchance you're doing the Waterford & Tramore, the suffix is "W" - but little or nothing of W & T origin remained on that line following an influx of second hand GSR & GSWR stuff.......

Hope that helps!

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The full list for CIE carriage number prefixes and suffixes (all are suffixes unless otherwise noted) which indicated the origin or purpose is as follows:

A - GS&WR vehicles confined to departmental use only

AM - Ambulance Coaches

B - CB&SCR (as already mentioned by JHB)

C - West Clare (Narrow Gauge)

D - D&SER

HC - Holiday Camping Coaches

J - Timoleague & Courtmacsherry

K -  Cork & Muskerry (Narrow Gauge)

L - Cavan & Leitrim (Narrow Gauge)

M - M&GWR

N - GNR (in addition to which a prefix 'C' was added)

O (Prefix) - GS&WR locomotive coal wagons (which were numbered in their own series)

P - Cork, Blackrock & Passage (Narrow Gauge)

PXP - Vehicles not fit for traffic, but used as mobile stores

R - Cork & Macroom Direct

RS (Prefix) - Radio Studio Coaches

S - Schull & Skibbereen (Narrow Gauge)

S (Post 1964) - Secondary Coaching Stock

T - Tralee & Dingle (Narrow Gauge)

V - Could appear anywhere on the bodywork to indicate scrapping has been recommended

W - Waterford & Tramore

X -  Could appear anywhere on the bodywork to indicate scrapping has been approved

XP - Non-passenger vehicle that may run in a passenger train

 

Source: IRISH RAILWAYS TODAY (1967)

 

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44 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

The full list for CIE carriage number prefixes and suffixes (all are suffixes unless otherwise noted) which indicated the origin or purpose is as follows:

A - GS&WR vehicles confined to departmental use only

AM - Ambulance Coaches

B - CB&SCR (as already mentioned by JHB)

C - West Clare (Narrow Gauge)

D - D&SER

HC - Holiday Camping Coaches

J - Timoleague & Courtmacsherry

K -  Cork & Muskerry (Narrow Gauge)

L - Cavan & Leitrim (Narrow Gauge)

M - M&GWR

N - GNR (in addition to which a prefix 'C' was added)

O (Prefix) - GS&WR locomotive coal wagons (which were numbered in their own series)

P - Cork, Blackrock & Passage (Narrow Gauge)

PXP - Vehicles not fit for traffic, but used as mobile stores

R - Cork & Macroom Direct

RS (Prefix) - Radio Studio Coaches

S - Schull & Skibbereen (Narrow Gauge)

S (Post 1964) - Secondary Coaching Stock

T - Tralee & Dingle (Narrow Gauge)

V - Could appear anywhere on the bodywork to indicate scrapping has been recommended

W - Waterford & Tramore

X -  Could appear anywhere on the bodywork to indicate scrapping has been approved

XP - Non-passenger vehicle that may run in a passenger train

 

Source: IRISH RAILWAYS TODAY (1967)

 

Under "A", it was not just ex-GSWR stock used for non-traffic purposes - it was stock from ANY company. many crew vans in PW trains numbered in the "A" series were old MGWR six-wheel coaches, including both at Downpatrick and the ones in Whitehead and Clifden.

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