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Mark's Workbench: DW&WR/D&SER Wagons

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2996 Victor
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Hi everyone! Welcome to my new Workbench thread which will be focusing on DW&WR/D&SER wagons.

I was recently delighted to receive from @KMCE of this parish some of his rather excellent 3D-printed wagons, namely three cattle wagons, two convertibles, two opens and one Ashbury box van. The plan is that these will be 21mm gauge/P4 standards, with sprung buffers. I still haven't decided on couplings..... :) Ken has done a really superb job on these wagons, and if you haven't got any yet then I'd really recommend them.

So, as a preliminary, they were all washed using fairy liquid and gently scrubbed with an old toothbrush, and then thoroughly rinsed off. The water was kept to a tepid temperature to avoid the risk of distortion. Here they are drying off:
IMG-4502.jpg
Nice, eh? :) 

Following this, most of them were treated to a couple of thin coats of my favoured primer/basecoat, which is Tamiya's AS-29 IJN Grey-Green in a rattle can. I think it makes an excellent base wood colour. Unfortunately, as you can see I should have bought two cans.....
IMG-4507.jpg
The eagle-eyed among you will notice I've already put the bars into the rearmost cattle wagon. Which brings me to:

The bars in the cattle wagon are from 0.020" phosphor-bronze wire, and the printed-in holes needed just a little help with opening out:
IMG-4509.jpg

Following which, the PB wire bars could be inserted:
IMG-4512.jpg
The cut inner ends located nicely in the printed-in holes so they didn't need any work.

Once all the wire bars were in place, a tiny dob of extra thin CA glue was used to secure them:
IMG-4516.jpg
And once the glue had cured, the excess wire was trimmed back with a set of side cutters, and then carefully filed flush with the wagon framing.

Here is the set again, with the cattle wagons and the Ashbury Van (top right) having received their PB wire "bars". In the case of the latter, 0.015" wire was used.
IMG-4520.jpg

That's all for now. As soon as I can get buffer housings fitted, it'll be time for painting and lettering. The choice of shade of grey is, as always, perplexing in the extreme!

Cheers,
Mark

Edited by 2996 Victor
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2 hours ago, Noel said:

Superb

 

1 hour ago, David Holman said:

Well done Mark and we'll done, Ken!

 

8 minutes ago, the Bandon tank said:

They really look fantastic. Have to get some of them.

Thanks, chaps! The accolades need to go to Ken @KMCE really - he's the real craftsman!

Cheers,

Mark

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I chose to have the wagons without buffers and source some myself as I wanted to fit sprung buffers. I've got a stack of MJT steel buffer heads and springs and some Bill Bedford/Mousa Models 3D-printed housings, some Midland, some GWR. Here you can see a set of Midland round-based housings sitting in the headstocks of one of the cattle wagons:
IMG-4521.jpg
Hmmmm, a bit short methinks! Comparing these buffer housings in the Ashbury Van with photos, definitely makes them look a bit short, so I've got some GWR carriage buffer housings on order to see how they look.

Thinking a bit more about livery, Shepherd/Beesley barely touches on the subject of wagon livery saying only, "In later days wagons were painted slate grey with the company initials applied in large white letters". I presume this applies to both the DW&WR and D&SER eras? Any ideas?

Thanks for looking in,
Mark

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Many thanks for the comments, and even I have to admit the wagons look good - well done Mark. 

They do seem to improve with a coat of paint - somehow it helps to highlight the details.

 

With regard to the buffers, those short buffers you have would work well on the convertible and open wagons as they would have had shorter buffers due to the dumb buffer look to the headstocks - I use the shorter buffer for these, with the longer buffer for the cattle and Ashbury.

 

As to livery, I recall you mentioning your era was around 1900 to 1915? - if so, slate grey with lettering in white and plenty of weathering.

1049271606_BallastWagonPainted1.thumb.jpg.f3ac6d75893946a97f9c4f0481662b46.jpg

Hope that helps.

Ken

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10 hours ago, KMCE said:

Many thanks for the comments, and even I have to admit the wagons look good - well done Mark. 

They do seem to improve with a coat of paint - somehow it helps to highlight the details.

 

With regard to the buffers, those short buffers you have would work well on the convertible and open wagons as they would have had shorter buffers due to the dumb buffer look to the headstocks - I use the shorter buffer for these, with the longer buffer for the cattle and Ashbury.

 

As to livery, I recall you mentioning your era was around 1900 to 1915? - if so, slate grey with lettering in white and plenty of weathering.

1049271606_BallastWagonPainted1.thumb.jpg.f3ac6d75893946a97f9c4f0481662b46.jpg

Hope that helps.

Ken

Hi Ken,

Credit where it's due!!! The models are superb. But a coat of paint certainly makes the details pop!

Thanks for the suggestions for the buffers - I've fitted the short ones to the convertibles and they do look good. I've also given those two a coat of grey, although looking at your pic - great two-planker, by the way - I think it's a bit pale.

My preferred era is 1905 give or take a few years either way, so I'd guess there's be a mix of DW&WR and D&SER lettering. How high do you reckon the lettering would be on the convertibles?

Many thanks once again and best regards,

Mark

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56 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

Credit where it's due!!! The models are superb. But a coat of paint certainly makes the details pop!

......Cheers, much appreciated. 

 

57 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

a mix of DW&WR and D&SER lettering. How high do you reckon the lettering would be on the convertibles?

A little difficult to determine as there are so few photos of DSER stock, and even less of DWWR.  Having said that, there are some good photos on your Mount Bellew page 5, one of which shows an early DSER cattle wagon based on the covered wagon and it appears the lettering to be 2 planks high.  I think it would be reasonable to assume a similar size for the convertible which should just fit between the uprights.  Their lettering was quite large, so I would err on the larger size - ref page 104 Shepherd & Beesley for an image of the "Hurst Nelson" open wagon in DWWR livery.

Hope that helps

 

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23 minutes ago, KMCE said:

there are some good photos on your Mount Bellew page 5

Oops! I'd forgotten that..... 😳

24 minutes ago, KMCE said:

I think it would be reasonable to assume a similar size for the convertible which should just fit between the uprights.  Their lettering was quite large, so I would err on the larger size - ref page 104 Shepherd & Beesley for an image of the "Hurst Nelson" open wagon in DWWR livery.

Thanks, Ken, that's great - I'll go with that.

The Hurst Nelson wagon seems to have black-painted ironwork - would you say that was purely for photographic purposes? I've not come across any mention of it otherwise.

Thanks again and best regards,

Mark

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18 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

Oops! I'd forgotten that..... 😳

Thanks, Ken, that's great - I'll go with that.

The Hurst Nelson wagon seems to have black-painted ironwork - would you say that was purely for photographic purposes? I've not come across any mention of it otherwise.

Thanks again and best regards,

Mark

Yes - this was commonplace in makers’ photographs, to provide contrast. While it was seen amongst a number of British liveries, it was very rare in Ireland for any type of wagon to have black ironwork unless the wagon was black itself, as many early GSWR, DSER & Donegal Railway ones were.

The rule on Irish railways was almost always that ironwork was body colour. There were very few exceptions.

Same with makers photos of locos with white connecting rods, or white rims on carriage wheels - they didn’t run like that.

With no colour photography, black, white and numerous shades of grey were necessary on official works photos to show detail. Once photographed, the item concerned would be painted in its “proper” livery before delivery to its new owner.

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20 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes - this was commonplace in makers’ photographs, to provide contrast. While it was seen amongst a number of British liveries, it was very rare in Ireland for any type of wagon to have black ironwork unless the wagon was black itself, as many early GSWR, DSER & Donegal Railway ones were.

The rule on Irish railways was almost always that ironwork was body colour. There were very few exceptions.

Same with makers photos of locos with white connecting rods, or white rims on carriage wheels - they didn’t run like that.

With no colour photography, black, white and numerous shades of grey were necessary on official works photos to show detail. Once photographed, the item concerned would be painted in its “proper” livery before delivery to its new owner.

Thanks, Jonathan, I thought that would be the case but in all things, "ya never know!" :) particularly, as you say, when it was not uncommon among British companies - the Somerset & Dorset Joint Railways and the Cambrian Railways spring readily to mind.

All the best,
Mark

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