Speculative/Fantasy Irish Railway Map of what Possibly Might have Been.

[Rush and Lusk]

Hi Folks, I picked this up in my Twitter Feed and feel it's worth sharing with the knowledgeable members of this forum. It builds upon the 1906 railway network map, assumes no closures and adds a variety of speculative/fantasy dimensions. For a wide variety of reasons, many of these lines would not have survived and/or not be built, but nonetheless it illustrates elements of what possibly might have been.

The map can be expanded to read more easily when you click through the link.

George 

https://theoditsek.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/ireland-crayon.png

 

 

[Galteemore]

Oh for a zone 1-9 day travel card on that ! 

[Broithe]

Many years ago, there was an article in the annual Rathdowney Review about a plan for a tramway from Ballybrophy to Rathdowney, for passengers and for Perry's brewery traffic. The plans were, supposedly, quite advanced, but nothing ever actually happened on the ground.

If I ever find it again, I will post it on here.

[jhb171achill]

If we go back to Railway Commission reports and plans of the 1830s, and right up to more wacko and downright delusional plans for various rural branch lines up to about 1920, we would have a network of railways never built, which probably was almost as much as what WAS built. When researching for the books on the Achill and Clifden lines, I found some seven or eight schemes in those two areas which were not built - and in the case of some of those proposed, requiring huge engineering features in virtually uninhabited country, whoever dreamed them up must be have been smokin' the funny stuff!

I am currently almost finished a book on another MGWR branch, and in its formative years there were also several proposals which were stillborn. Equally, with the one I've just started recently.

Not only that, but extensions to BUILT ones often were strange. There were four extensions once proposed to the Achill branch, each one more impractical than the last!

[jhb171achill]

To expand on the above, to take the Achill branch as an example, at one time a branch off it to Inishlyre was proposed. This was to service a fishing pier the size of a plank of wood in an area with no village and few people about, even today. It was about 2 miles to the west of the line - the junction would have been about two miles out of Westport. Another extension of similar size was proposed from Achill to Gubbardletter, just north of Achill station. This involved a line crossing a bog without even a road, to the end of a completely uninhabited peninsula, where a pier MIGHT be built. Utter nonsense!

Another possibility was an extension across Achill Sound onto the island, necessitating a very substantial several-span steel viaduct, á la Cahirciveen. The line would continue through the iskand to come to an end at the backwater village of Dugort, population maybe just over 100!

Finally, and most bizarrely, from a point near Owenduff, halfway between Achill and Mallaranny, an even longer viaduct would head north from a junction there (and inevitably a junction station; the area remains essentially unpopulated to this day). The line would strike north towards Ballycroy, Bangor Erris and Belmullet, these three places between them perhaps having somethign approaching 1000 people in TOTAL. Yet, they are spread out over some 40-odd miles or more, in between them being - nothing. Just stones, turf bog and lakes. Zero population, zero industry, zero likelihood of any developing.......! And there would need to be at least THREE Cahirciveen-sized viaducts, one crossing quite deep water......

Edited August 28, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Westcorkrailway]

Achill is very remote. Any other examples you know of with situations like this? Presumably they must be all around the county

 

where would one go about finding them 

[Branchline121]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

If we go back to Railway Commission reports and plans of the 1830s, and right up to more wacko and downright delusional plans for various rural branch lines up to about 1920, we would have a network of railways never built, which probably was almost as much as what WAS built. When researching for the books on the Achill and Clifden lines, I found some seven or eight schemes in those two areas which were not built - and in the case of some of those proposed, requiring huge engineering features in virtually uninhabited country, whoever dreamed them up must be have been smokin' the funny stuff!

Some ideas are quite interesting. After researching about the line to Kingscourt, I found out there was supposed to have been a line to Carrickmacross that would have ended up in Belfast, essentially making another Dublin to Belfast line; although this was before the Great Northern Dublin to Belfast line was built! It’s crazy to think about the Enterprise going through somewhere like Navan rather than Drogheda.

[jhb171achill]

28 minutes ago, Branchline121 said:

Some ideas are quite interesting. After researching about the line to Kingscourt, I found out there was supposed to have been a line to Carrickmacross that would have ended up in Belfast, essentially making another Dublin to Belfast line; although this was before the Great Northern Dublin to Belfast line was built! It’s crazy to think about the Enterprise going through somewhere like Navan rather than Drogheda.

Correct - and there was another early proposal to have the main line north from Dublin heading out through Dunshaughlin, Navan, Monaghan, Armagh and up the Lagan Valley. From memory, according to old papers I read through many years ago dating from that period, the terminus was to have been somewhere around the Stranmillis area of Belfast, or close to the present Queen's University.

In this early survey, the suburban area of south Belfast, Dunmurry, now a halt on the KLisburn - Belfast commuter route, was desecribed as "....a modest village of some thatched hovels...."

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Achill is very remote. Any other examples you know of with situations like this? Presumably they must be all around the county

 

where would one go about finding them 

Yes, there were lots, and everywhere.

To take a few random examples;

Loughrea was to be reached by any one of four different routes, while Clifden even had a narrow gauge line planned as late as 1909 - heading to GREENORE via no one place over a few hundred people!!!

The Ulster & Connaught Railway, with a desperately meandering route, if built, would have been the most utterly downright stupid waste of public money in history, very much akin to the tunnel or bridge over the Irish Sea proposed by a revolting man in England with yellow carpet on his head!

The journey time would have been some 12 hours, via the Cavan & Leitrim and even a part of the 12mph roadside Clogher Valley….

Yet - ye know what? Had it been built, today there would be a clamour of houses about how it should never have been closed, and how vital a piece of infrastructure it would be to the west of Ireland, and how much profit it would make with huge tonnages of freight to an international hub at Tynan, Cong or Shrule, and how many tens of thousands of tourists would travel on it….

I digress!

While Co Antrim was the cradle of narrow gauge, more lines than were built were proposed. Another line would have connected Downpatrick or thereabouts with the GNR main line near Scarva. The CDR Killybegs line would have continued west towards Glencolombkille. The Macroom branch would have ended in Kenmare. Picturesque Enniskerry, south of Dublin, could have had two routes, at least one narrow gauge.

As other mentioned, the Midland wouldn’t have stopped at Kingscourt (it’s built as a through station) but gone on north as far as (sit down for this one) Coleraine!

No less than three serious proposals were made to bring a railway to Belmullet, also Crossmolina (hence the “Crossmolina Siding” in Ballina.

There were literally hundreds more. A fascinating study in itself, and one with endless scope for modellers.

 

[leslie10646]

I’ll reply more fully when back from Delays in Deutschland - but I can’t resist asking “would the horse at Fintona have been replaced by a Parry People Mover?”

If DB and Eurostar get me home from Cologne tomorrow you’ll know soon enough!

Another thought on Galteemore’s post above - how much would a month’s Interrail Pass cost to cover that map! Should have had another Black Bush, then I could have dreamt about how I’d cover the network (by steam, of course!)?

Night, night

[jhb171achill]

13 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

I’ll reply more fully when back from Delays in Deutschland - but I can’t resist asking “would the horse at Fintona have been replaced by a Parry People Mover?”

If DB and Eurostar get me home from Cologne tomorrow you’ll know soon enough!

Another thought on Galteemore’s post above - how much would a month’s Interrail Pass cost to cover that map! Should have had another Black Bush, then I could have dreamt about how I’d cover the network (by steam, of course!)?

Night, night

I’ll go with the whiskey, Leslie; anything’s possible after a few, including a 60mph non stop by the horse, with tram and Saloon 50 attached, straight to Amiens Street…

[Rush and Lusk]

I have thoroughly enjoyed the exchanges arising from this post - the wealth of knowledge is extraordinary including the witty observations. I have learned so much, especially from Jonathan. No doubt this map and topic will feature again as we inevitably muse on this complex subject. Thank you all.

George 

[jhb171achill]

The topic got me thinking about what among these schemes might make a nice layout; our resident experts on mini-layouts, such as David Holman, Galteemore and others, have shown how "what might have been" can make a very absorbing layout. While researching the railways of Mayo many moons ago, I perused the roughest of shetches about what might have been in terms of the Inishlyre one mentioned above.  It would have left the Achill branch just north of Westport, and south of Barley Hill, heading west to a small pier which, based on the impression given, would have been devbeloped to something similar to that at Burtonport. On that basis, I had drawn a rough sketch of how this might inspire the simplest of shunting layouts, perhaps in "0" gauge. A J26 ("E" class) 0.6.0T or a G class diesel and half a dozen goods vans would be all that would be needed.

Based on this, I've put together a rough sketch of what this place might have looked like, based on maps, my knowledge of the area, and the plans suggested to the MGWR (who rejected them instantly). Call it a "Westport Quay Lite", which in effect it would have been, or a "Valentia Harbour Junior". I can picture Mr. Holman's beautiful D16 shoving an empty fish van down to the pier.

The inclusion of a grain store could equally be a fish store, like at Achill station. This is added with a nod to Hall's Mill at Westport Quay for a layout operator's interest. The proposed name of the station was "Inishlyre Roads" (in the plural; the reason being obscure; but might as well have been Rosmoney. There was a coastguard station nearby - another possible point of interest in a model.

Edited August 31, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Horsetan]

On 28/8/2022 at 9:29 PM, jhb171achill said:

.... right up to more wacko and downright delusional plans for various rural branch lines up to about 1920....

However, one common theme seems to be shared by a great many of these schemes: it was that those proposing them were hoping that the established railway companies would pay for construction and the subsequent operation of these lines. The great Irish tradition of trying to achieve something for nothing, by whatever means, continues to this day.