O-16.5 Musings.....

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, David Holman said:

Just be careful with the con rods on the S class, because they are outside the front drivers. On the real thing, clearance could be pretty tight, which on a model often equates to fag paper thickness. The good news is that, with a semi freelance model, nobody is going to notice of you move the cylinders out a bit. The other modelling dodge is to bore the cylinders slightly off centre to create more room.

Achieving sufficient clearance between the coupling (grey) and connecting (red) rods outside the leading driving wheels may be challenging, on the prototype both coupling and connecting rods appeared to be the same or a similar length.

This may be less of a problem with a narrow gauge loco using a rtr OO gauge chassis than a scratchbuild chassis with closer to scale running clearances.

OO Gauge RTR chassis are designed with increased running clearance to reduce the risk of valve gear binding and run round small radius concerns

The best option would be check whether its feasible to move the existing cylinder assembly closer to the driving wheels, before carrying out any modifications to the chassis.

The 2-4-2Ts were 2 cylinder compounds the cylinder on the right hand side of the (going forward) loco were substantially larger than the cylinder on the opposite side., the Hornby Adams cylinders can be disguised/covered up with plasticard wrappers to look closer to the prototype.

If your really adventurous the Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T valve gear looks very close https://www.petersspares.com/hornby-x1283-2-6-4-fowler-tank-valve-gear-left-hand.ir to the S Class gear, the Hornby Fowler gear and cylinders may be an option if you can locate a 'dead" Hornby Fowler or source the spare parts, Peter's only appear to have th LH valve gear in stock!

[Patrick Davey]

Super stuff thanks for that John - I actually do have a Fowler tank in the cupboard, with thoughts of a Jeep conversion at one point..........

[Patrick Davey]

10 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Just bought a black Hornby Adams Radial off eBay - updates to follow!

Thanks again everyone.

Impressed - just received a dispatch notification for this so things are moving!  Am not doing anything on this project until I have a working, and fairly reasonably accurate chassis........always tempting to start the scenics..........

[Galteemore]

29 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Super stuff thanks for that John - I actually do have a Fowler tank in the cupboard, with thoughts of a Jeep conversion at one point..........

Bill Scott’s book makes a very interesting point re the S2 - suggests it was an NG foreshadowing of what the WT would look like…..https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/NORTHERN-COUNTIES-COMMITTEE-NARROW-GAUGE-LINES/i-3sgDTT4/A

Edited September 20, 2022 by Galteemore

[Galteemore]

30 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Impressed - just received a dispatch notification for this so things are moving!  Am not doing anything on this project until I have a working, and fairly reasonably accurate chassis........always tempting to start the scenics..........

Could always have a try at a simple 5.5 mm wagon…..

[Patrick Davey]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Bill Scott’s book makes a very interesting point re the S2 - suggests it was an NG foreshadowing of what the WT would look like…..https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/NORTHERN-COUNTIES-COMMITTEE-NARROW-GAUGE-LINES/i-3sgDTT4/A

Yes I have seen that beast - had actually been considering it too but am not sure it went to Ballycastle though........ there's an excuse for a Ballymena & Larne micro next!!!

 

[Galteemore]

It’s a monster ! I think she might have given a better account of herself on the Ballycastle line. Inver bank was just too much for her adhesive powers.

[Patrick Davey]

Been studying this photo from Ernie's invaluable collection, as it shows a detailed 'full frontal' of an S class loco, conveniently too, for me, at Capecastle:

 

As well as the front arrangement it shows the interesting coupling setup, which actually looks a bit like a modern tension lock coupling?  Plus the locomotive does not have any buffers so am guessing the coupling doubled as a buffer too, and upon investigation I see that a lot (all?) of Irish narrow gauge stock was devoid of buffers and had a similar coupling arrangement - some were roughly rectangular as above and some had a more rounded shape.  Am sure someone here would be able to offer more background to this style of coupling?

Also noting the distinctive fishplates and the neat stack of these to the left of the shot - I have never seen right angled fishplates before, were these used elsewhere on NG lines?

Thanks again Ernie for this and for all your superb photographs.

Also - what are the cone-shaped fixtures above the buffer beam?  They look like jacks for re-railing misbehaving locomotives......?

Edited September 20, 2022 by Patrick Davey

[Galteemore]

They are indeed jacks, well known on the SLNC; a permanent feature of every loco when in traffic. A handy thing to have when the PW was dubious…seen here on ‘Hazelwood’. ….. also not unknown for GNRI locos to carry them in Victorian era.

 

as to the fishplates, they are unusual and clearly for FB rail. Would need to analyse a few photos to check for other use!

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Galteemore

[Northroader]

The cone shaped objects above the footplate are screw jacks, with a transverse table under them with another screw to shift them sideways. Used with hardwood packing blocks and a wood “biscuit” on top, where a minor derailment has happened.

The couplings look like “Norwegian” or “chopper” couplings, common for a lot of n.g.lines. There’s a spring at the back, which helps with buffering up. One coupling carries a chopper on a pin, and the opposing coupling carries a pin for it to hook on to. The pins are removable, and can be swapped around if necessary.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Norwegian_coupling

Edited September 20, 2022 by Northroader

[airfixfan]

Jack's were often seen on CDR locos as well

[Galteemore]

Locos employed on Dublin suburban traffic all carried jackeens.

[BSGSV]

5 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Locos employed on Dublin suburban traffic all carried jackeens.

A lot of country lads at Dublin sheds too!

16 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Also noting the distinctive fishplates and the neat stack of these to the left of the shot - I have never seen right angled fishplates before, were these used elsewhere on NG lines?

Others have commented on the traversing jacks, but the fishplates look like items designed for the spiked track in the photo. There's no soleplates, just the track flange spiked to the sleeper. The fishplates appear to have a dual function in bolting the two rails together, and having a hole, either end, to either bolt or spike down the track on to the sleeper, just at the joint where a bit more support would be useful.

[Patrick Davey]

Nice view here of the exact locomotive I'm interested in, only I'd be doing it in unlined black NCC livery:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/Irish-railways/Irish-railway-archive-2/i-LZpC9MD/A

[Patrick Davey]

It has now become a frightening prospect to try and butcher an otherwise perfectly fine locomotive…..

[Horsetan]

59 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

It has now become a frightening prospect to try and butcher an otherwise perfectly fine locomotive…..

If you're only going to be messing with the chassis, I'd suggest selling the bodyshell untouched. Hornby China bodyshells are not available as spares, so eBay is pretty much the only way you can obtain any. You'd be getting some money back.

A Radial body on a Martin Finney Radial chassis makes a decent model in EM or P4.

[Brack]

Apologies if I've missed it, but what scale are you going for?

I'm just think that in 7mm rtr chassis on 16.5mm I'd probably start from a SR schools class - 10' coupled wheelbase and 6'7" wheels should scale out at 40mm/26.33mm

 

The S class had 6'3 coupled wheelbase and 3'9" wheels, in 7mm that'd be  43.75mm/26.25mm

The Hornby Railroad ones are loco drive, and quite a compact chassis unit too - the bogie/cylinder end should be pretty easy to saw off.

The Radial has smaller wheels and a shorter wheelbase, but if you were looking at 5.5mm it might well be a better bet and you can ignore my musings in this post!

 

[Patrick Davey]

9 minutes ago, Brack said:

Apologies if I've missed it, but what scale are you going for?

I'm just think that in 7mm rtr chassis on 16.5mm I'd probably start from a SR schools class - 10' coupled wheelbase and 6'7" wheels should scale out at 40mm/26.33mm

 

The S class had 6'3 coupled wheelbase and 3'9" wheels, in 7mm that'd be  43.75mm/26.25mm

The Hornby Railroad ones are loco drive, and quite a compact chassis unit too - the bogie/cylinder end should be pretty easy to saw off.

The Radial has smaller wheels and a shorter wheelbase, but if you were looking at 5.5mm it might well be a better bet and you can ignore my musings in this post!

 

5.5 is the chosen scale

[Brack]

4 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

5.5 is the chosen scale

Then chop away!