Help planning an OO gauge 'Shelfie 2' esque 6 foot x 15 inch layout?

[theotherandy]

Hello all,

A while back I started a 6' x 15" shelf layout based on an inglenook plan published in Model Railroader. I found it pretty boring (both the operation and the scenery/backstory) and didn't get far. I began looking at alternatives and stumbled upon Paul Marshal-Potter's Shelfie 2: https://albionyard.com/2018/03/05/motivation-monday-shelfie2-progression/

It appeals to me for two reasons:

1. I've always wanted to model a prototype outside of North America
2. It allows the locomotive to travel the full length of the board and take a different route via a runaround, whereas the inglenook only allows the locomotive to travel back and forth a few feet

While Shelfie 2 is set in an rural English colliery, I happened to find (and order) the American oddity known as the Class 121 so I will be modelling Ireland (the word 'modelling' being applied fairly loosely) in the 1960s or 70s (it's the grey livery). I'd specifically like to go for a small station scene with a loading area for beets.

I have three main criteria:

• Use my existing benchwork
• Attempt to use track I already possess (mostly)
• Provide space for my American rolling stock (until I can afford a bunch of kits, beets will be transported in 2-bay coal hoppers and other goods in 40' boxcars)

Attached is what I've come up with so far. Track is all Code 100 HO flex track from Peco, except where noted. I have eliminated the additional siding present on Shelfie 2 primarily because I wasn't quite sure how to elegantly add it in, but my layout is also narrower and may look more crowded with it.

Given my choice of locomotive, I did consider adding a 9" turntable in place of the hill on the left, but that might be a bit much for this space. Then again, it may add more play value.

Thoughts? Advice? Insults? Is there something in a similar vein but more appropriate for the place and time?

[David Holman]

 Like the "less is more" by not overcrowding with track, but not sure about the front siding as the loco will always be shunting it from off scene. What about having it fed from the headshunt end, as per the beet siding, so stock is always on show?

 Alternatively, as suggested, use the Wye to feed a turntable where the hill is, because this will be more fun and certainly more Irish. Another thought, if you have the space, is to arrange a hidden siding disappearing off scene (either end), which can then go to any source you fancy, further increasing operating potential.

 Have a look at my Clogher Valley thread in the layout section. Yes, it is 7mm scale and 21mm gauge, but the principles are similar to what you are thinking about. The layout is 2m x 50cm and includes a station, turntable, two sidings and a third going off scene. All using 90cm radius curves, so you should be able to fit something similar in your space with smaller radii in a slightly smaller space.

[Flying Snail]

Hi Andy and welcome. I like your plan - it looks very elegant. I've a similar space that I'm hoping to put something in too, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Actually, I was leaning towards the inglenook myself - so I was interested to see your thoughts about maintaining long term interest in it.

On the kits:  @leslie10646 (Provincial Wagons) does some excellent resin kits that are very suitable to the era you want - including the beet wagons. @Mayner (JM Design Model Railways) focuses on 3d prints and has wagons that would suit too. I've bought from both, and am a very happy customer.

[theotherandy]

20 hours ago, David Holman said:

 Like the "less is more" by not overcrowding with track, but not sure about the front siding as the loco will always be shunting it from off scene. What about having it fed from the headshunt end, as per the beet siding, so stock is always on show?

 Alternatively, as suggested, use the Wye to feed a turntable where the hill is, because this will be more fun and certainly more Irish. Another thought, if you have the space, is to arrange a hidden siding disappearing off scene (either end), which can then go to any source you fancy, further increasing operating potential.

 Have a look at my Clogher Valley thread in the layout section. Yes, it is 7mm scale and 21mm gauge, but the principles are similar to what you are thinking about. The layout is 2m x 50cm and includes a station, turntable, two sidings and a third going off scene. All using 90cm radius curves, so you should be able to fit something similar in your space with smaller radii in a slightly smaller space.

These are excellent points. I hadn't given the fact that the train will be "off-stage" for that siding any thought. I am having trouble with the visual of flipping it around though, as it always seems to make the layout look unbalanced. I will definitely check out your plan.

I've made several variations tonight, most of them insane. None I particularly like. I think I do prefer replacing the Mehano with the additional Atlas switch though, so that'll likely stay. Fairly certain my local hobby shop has a box of used Atlas #6s as they are popular, so I can get them cheap.

[theotherandy]

18 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

Hi Andy and welcome. I like your plan - it looks very elegant. I've a similar space that I'm hoping to put something in too, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Actually, I was leaning towards the inglenook myself - so I was interested to see your thoughts about maintaining long term interest in it.

On the kits:  @leslie10646 (Provincial Wagons) does some excellent resin kits that are very suitable to the era you want - including the beet wagons. @Mayner (JM Design Model Railways) focuses on 3d prints and has wagons that would suit too. I've bought from both, and am a very happy customer.

Thank you. I think that's what I like about the Shelfie 2 layout and dislike about the stuff I came up with tonight: elegance (or lack of in the case of my examples). I just need to find the right balance of elegance and play value.

I'm sure for someone the inglenook works, but not for me. I've tried twice now. I think it's too reliant on the game aspect holding your attention, but once you figure out that you just need to build the new train in reverse the game stops doing that. At that point it's just a loco moving a foot back and a foot forth sorting boxcars for eternity.

I will keep those guys in mind!

[David Holman]

The third one, above, easily has the best 'flow' about it and keeps all the shunting on scene. I do wish my spell checker would stop substituting haunting for shunting though!

 Another thought is to use the turntable as the headshunt. This saves the left hand Atlas 6 and space too.

Edited May 12, 2023 by David Holman

[theotherandy]

I think I may have come up with something I like. It requires one more Atlas #6, but feels balanced and keeps that curvy, flowing look to it. It also is essentially Shelfie 2 while keeping everything in-scene.

6 hours ago, David Holman said:

The third one, above, easily has the best 'flow' about it and keeps all the shunting on scene. I do wish my spell checker would stop substituting haunting for shunting though!

 Another thought is to use the turntable as the headshunt. This saves the left hand Atlas 6 and space too.

The third one has too much empty space for my liking. I like the idea of using the turntable as the headshunt except that in my mind this is a station on a continuous line. So, while that's a headshunt in reality, in my fictional universe that's the continuation of the rail line.

Edited May 12, 2023 by theotherandy

[DJ Dangerous]

Enjoying looking at these different plans!

Slightly off topic but is it "Theo The Randy" or "The Other Andy"?

[Flying Snail]

25 minutes ago, theotherandy said:

I think I may have come up with something I like. It requires one more Atlas #6, but feels balanced and keeps that curvy, flowing look to it. It also is essentially Shelfie 2 while keeping everything in-scene.

I like that one too - though with 121s in mind, I'd be tempted to try and ditch the engine shed and swap in a turntable like in the second layout from your previous post

[theotherandy]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Enjoying looking at these different plans!

Slightly off topic but is it "Theo The Randy" or "The Other Andy"?

Lol. The Other Andy, although when I signed up I realized that it could also read Theo the Randy. I think I'm okay with that 

But if a mod wants to Pascal-case my username please do.

[David Holman]

The latest one has additional interest with a third siding, but not sure about the loco shed (it blocks the view of the headshunt), nor the goods shed (ditto). Also, when you think about it, the latter's purpose is to store stuff for onward movement by road and vice versa, but there is no room for road vehicles.

 Ultimately though, is this project going to be mainly about operation/play value, or more of a leaning towards creating an interesting scenic diorama that also has a bit of operational potential?

 Less track is better for the latter and certainly on Fintonagh, two sidings, the station and turntable offer plenty of amusement for an hour or so and even a full day at exhibitions.

[theotherandy]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:52 AM, Flying Snail said:

I like that one too - though with 121s in mind, I'd be tempted to try and ditch the engine shed and swap in a turntable like in the second layout from your previous post

Why not both?

Looking at the physical board and pictures of the Atlas turntable, I don't believe Anyrail when it says that I can fit that turntable so this is a custom 8" job. Headshunt has also been curved to allow for future expansion of the layout should I desire to do so.

19 hours ago, David Holman said:

The latest one has additional interest with a third siding, but not sure about the loco shed (it blocks the view of the headshunt), nor the goods shed (ditto). Also, when you think about it, the latter's purpose is to store stuff for onward movement by road and vice versa, but there is no room for road vehicles.

 Ultimately though, is this project going to be mainly about operation/play value, or more of a leaning towards creating an interesting scenic diorama that also has a bit of operational potential?

 Less track is better for the latter and certainly on Fintonagh, two sidings, the station and turntable offer plenty of amusement for an hour or so and even a full day at exhibitions.

You make excellent points, as usual. I think I need to lean more towards the scenic/art side of things. After all, I've had a fascination with curving, flowing lines that are almost certainly unprototypical (ignoring the common wisdom that you can find a prototype for literally anything).

I had a moment today to run to the local hobby shop and pick up the third Atlas switch. Unfortunately, they did not have any used so wound up with a brand new one. Fortunately, they (very very surprisingly) had Kadee 19's for the NEM sockets in the 121.

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by theotherandy

[David Holman]

Track is more curving and flowing than you might think, Andy and from a visual point of view looks better on a layout than everything parallel to the baseboard edge. Hence your diagonal  designs are the ones for me too. Nice curves are also attractive to the male eye for other reasons!

[theotherandy]

9 hours ago, David Holman said:

Track is more curving and flowing than you might think, Andy and from a visual point of view looks better on a layout than everything parallel to the baseboard edge. Hence your diagonal  designs are the ones for me too. Nice curves are also attractive to the male eye for other reasons!

Interestingly, not only is track more curving and flowing than I might think, it appears that I may have inadvertently recreated any number of stops along the GS&WR line from Waterford to Rosslare Harbor. It never occurred to me that island stations were a thing, but I then happened upon Ballycullane, which was obviously an island. Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any photos of Ballycullane during the period I am looking at, although the Eiretrains page does describe it having a goods yard. Looking down the line I found several others. Wellingtonbridge would appear to be almost exactly what I'm trying to accomplish, albeit on a larger scale: http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway Stations W/Wellingtonbridge/IrishRailwayStations.html#

This discovery is helpful. I have setup the bulk of the last plan on the board with thumbtacks (no pictures until I clean the basement), and while the wye looks okay in Anyrail, it's a bit of an eyesore in person. Trains move along a gently flowing curve, only to hit a sharp kink that is the wye. Not particularly graceful, but possibly something I could live with. Nevertheless, I will probably work on a couple variations that more closely resemble Wellingtonbridge or Bridgetown by ditching the wye, pulling everything forward and sticking a parallel siding in the back to move the beet loading to (and the goods shed). Possibly. 

At any rate, the depot is going in the center of the runaround.

[theotherandy]

I've been obsessed the past few days with the South Wexford line. There's surprisingly little in the way of photos and videos I could find of it from the time period I'm looking at, but I think I've managed to piece together something resembling a station that might be found on the line. Behold, Ballyfordbridge!

Less swoopy, more track, more prototypical (minus the added turntable, which near as I can tell would've only existed at Rosslare Harbour). This should also look better when a passenger train pulls up, although that's a ways off.

[David Holman]

And all the shunting on scene!

You might find that there is no room for a building on the island platform, as the minimum space for passengers was 12 feet (half that for single sided). However, no reason why the station building can't be where you have labelled the car park, nor why a simple boarded crossing for passengers, rather than a footbridge.

 Another thought - with that Y point under the bridge, you could have the station building on the bridge, with two tracks coming on scene from the fiddle yard/storage roads, instead of the Y. That would allow a longer platform, with steps down from the bridge. The fiddle yard could then be either a swinging sector plate, or if you haven't the room, use the cassette method instead.

[DJ Dangerous]

I wonder if @Sean has seen this thread. The plans, size and general discussion remind me of one of his layouts. He may have some advice on how moving from plan to reality worked out in his case.

[Flying Snail]

South Wexford is a nice subject to model, with a very distinct feel to it. As one of the quieter lines, I'd imagine it didn't change much over the years, so any images you can find of it will be helpful for you

[Noel]

17 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

South Wexford is a nice subject to model, with a very distinct feel to it. As one of the quieter lines, I'd imagine it didn't change much over the years, so any images you can find of it will be helpful for you

A pal of mine is planning to build a working 3D beet loader like the one that used to be at Wellingtonbridge station. All those south wexford lines had a standard layout and buildings (eg island platform and prefab signal box).

[Flying Snail]

5 hours ago, theotherandy said:

I've been obsessed the past few days with the South Wexford line. There's surprisingly little in the way of photos and videos I could find of it from the time period I'm looking at, but I think I've managed to piece together something resembling a station that might be found on the line. Behold, Ballyfordbridge!

On the topic of photos, have you seen Ernie's Irish Railway Archive on flikr? https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/collections/72157626625058875/

Ernie posts daily on this forum too with historic pictures of Irish railways. While I don't think he has a dedicated Wexford album in his archive he definitely does have a 121 album (with lots of the grey livery) as well as albums covering the 60s, 70s etc. - so you can get a feel for your 121 and typical trains etc. it would have had. Wexford locations will pop up too across his various albums.

Another thing to look out for are videos and pictures from the annual beet campaign, which were popular with enthusiasts, especially in the line's later years

[DJ Dangerous]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

A pal of mine is planning to build a working 3D beet loader like the one that used to be at Wellingtonbridge station. All those south wexford lines had a standard layout and buildings (eg island platform and prefab signal box).

Sounds lovely! Any plans or drafts or anything?

[theotherandy]

5 hours ago, David Holman said:

And all the shunting on scene!

You might find that there is no room for a building on the island platform, as the minimum space for passengers was 12 feet (half that for single sided). However, no reason why the station building can't be where you have labelled the car park, nor why a simple boarded crossing for passengers, rather than a footbridge.

 Another thought - with that Y point under the bridge, you could have the station building on the bridge, with two tracks coming on scene from the fiddle yard/storage roads, instead of the Y. That would allow a longer platform, with steps down from the bridge. The fiddle yard could then be either a swinging sector plate, or if you haven't the room, use the cassette method instead.

The station island is a necessity for it to be the South Wexford line, as every stop was configured identically. Come hell or high water, I will make it fit. But I don't foresee it being an issue, as the actual station buildings were small. These are placeholders (the Atlas signal box at the end of the island I actually own already, so the dimensions won't change too much as I just intend to kitbash it). The footbridge seems silly, but it gives it a certain charm that I'd like to keep.

I do like the idea of replacing the wye with two tracks though. If it doesn't perform well, I may do that.

[Niles]

The footbridge used it Wellington Bridge is oddly similar to the standard Hornby footbridge, or at least would give the right 'feel'. 

[theotherandy]

4 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

South Wexford is a nice subject to model, with a very distinct feel to it. As one of the quieter lines, I'd imagine it didn't change much over the years, so any images you can find of it will be helpful for you

 

4 hours ago, Noel said:

A pal of mine is planning to build a working 3D beet loader like the one that used to be at Wellingtonbridge station. All those south wexford lines had a standard layout and buildings (eg island platform and prefab signal box).

It seems as though they actually tore out most of the track and buildings in the 1980s, I'm guessing? Wellingtonbridge is the only stop that still has a significant amount of trackage plus its depot, whereas other stops like Ballycullane had the trackage ripped out and the depot replaced with a metal bus shelter. Wellingtonbridge had its track reconfigured a bit though for the big beet loading facility.

4 hours ago, Noel said:

A pal of mine is planning to build a working 3D beet loader like the one that used to be at Wellingtonbridge station. All those south wexford lines had a standard layout and buildings (eg island platform and prefab signal box).

Noel, I'd just like to mention that I've gone through almost every page of your Gort Station build. Fantastic work!

4 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

On the topic of photos, have you seen Ernie's Irish Railway Archive on flikr? https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/collections/72157626625058875/

Ernie posts daily on this forum too with historic pictures of Irish railways. While I don't think he has a dedicated Wexford album in his archive he definitely does have a 121 album (with lots of the grey livery) as well as albums covering the 60s, 70s etc. - so you can get a feel for your 121 and typical trains etc. it would have had. Wexford locations will pop up too across his various albums.

Another thing to look out for are videos and pictures from the annual beet campaign, which were popular with enthusiasts, especially in the line's later years

Ah, I hadn't seen his Flikr page. Thank you. I have definitely watched (and bored my 9 month old son with) several YouTube compilations of beet trains, including this fun one of the train stuck on the hill up to Ballycullane: 

I do get the impression that the 121 didn't actually visit the South Wexford line often.

Edited May 18, 2023 by theotherandy

[Niles]

121s wouldn't have been unknown on beets. They also appeared on passengers, sometimes in pairs but sometimes single (using Rosslare turntable at the end).

 

Few photos here of 121s on the Waterford-Rosslare passenger run in 2000: https://www.facebook.com/groups/259793900804215/permalink/440591499391120/  (you might need to join to view)

[theotherandy]

Setup some track to play around with. The trackage on the right is basically accurate to the plan. The left side of the loop is modified a bit since I'm finding flextrack to be a pita to cut with a hacksaw. Instead it's mainly Atlas sectional straight track with a 15" radius curve. 

Probably not staying like this, although everything I currently have on the table goes over it fine (including the GP15-1, which is identical in length to Murphys 121). I just need to cough up the crazy amount of money for a proper rail nipper.