3d printed MGWR A class/ GSR CIE D5 4-4-0

[GSR 800]

Evening all,

I've been considering commissioning an MGWR design from Killian following the completion of the 800 project.

The 'flagship' locos of the MGWR were the class A 4-4-0s, the largest express passenger locomotives in Ireland when built. They've a long lifespan, interesting variations and liveries to boot! To my eye the locos in their CIE guise were some of the most handsome engines on the system.

 

 

Aesthetics aside, we come to our first major hurdle. Almost every rtr 4-4-0 on the market has 6'8 or 6'9 driving wheels, compared to the MGWRs big 4-4-0s with 6'3 drivers. 

Here I began some experimentation. I purchased a D16/3 alongside some Princess Royal 6'6 driving wheels and black five bogie wheels off peters spares. Initially I used B1 drivers, but while more accurate, these caused the loco to slip furiously with a load

Out went one wheelset, the crankpins were swapped, and in went the new set. Ditto with the bogie wheels. Drawbar was adjusted slightly to accommodate. Brake shoes and sand pipe were cut back slightly to avoid fouling the track. Pickups were gently persauded to align with the smaller wheels. 

The patient is at full health following her operation, runs smoothly.

Quote for designing the loco and tender is roughly 400-500 euros, which I believe is more than fair for the time and effort Killian puts into it, and the attention to detail. If there are other customers I am told the design price could be brought down. 

This is a gauge of interest. Obviously a bit more work in terms of the chassis compared to the 800s. New wheelsets have to be bought, etc. Took under an hour to swap everything out and make the necessary adjustments. 

If anyone is interested let us know.

 

Edited July 1, 2025 by GSR 800

[Killian Keane]

Oh dear perhaps I oughn't to have done such an adequate job on the 800 LOL but no if we get enough backing Id love to do this

whats the rule of thumb? 'if you have a 4-4-0 and an 0-6-0 you can run 99% of Irish steam era trains' or in the earlier era a 2-4-0 and 0-6-0

[GSR 800]

17 minutes ago, Killian Keane said:

Oh dear perhaps I oughn't to have done such an adequate job on the 800 LOL but no if we get enough backing Id love to do this

whats the rule of thumb? 'if you have a 4-4-0 and an 0-6-0 you can run 99% of Irish steam era trains' or in the earlier era a 2-4-0 and 0-6-0

And then the 2-4-0s outlasted a lot of the 4-4-0s...Atock would have been delighted.

 

[Mayner]

Fair play Harry I have been planning to build a fleet of Midland engines since I was a teenager and it took me 40 years and several false starts to build a successful Ks/650 Class. I still have wheelsets stashed away for a Cattle Engine, Standard Goods, 650 & Achill Bogie.

Fitting B1 wheels under a D16/3 (Hornby ?) is a nice bit of latteral thinking as its becoming increasingly difficult to source loco driving wheels from traditional sources like Markits & AGW.

Having used a professional 3D modeller to design most of my 3D models, Killan's fee for designing the A Class appears reasonable. 

By the way 544 in the photo of the train arriving at Broadstone is one of the ligher/shorer C Class equally deserving of being modelled

I am heavily comitted to 21mm gauge and working in metal, but its looking increasingly unlikely at this stage that I will get around to building a 21mm layout and may have to compromise on OO to build a layout.

Well done for showing such initiative

[GSR 800]

35 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Fair play Harry I have been planning to build a fleet of Midland engines since I was a teenager and it took me 40 years and several false starts to build a successful Ks/650 Class. I still have wheelsets stashed away for a Cattle Engine, Standard Goods, 650 & Achill Bogie.

Fitting B1 wheels under a D16/3 (Hornby ?) is a nice bit of latteral thinking as its becoming increasingly difficult to source loco driving wheels from traditional sources like Markits & AGW.

Having used a professional 3D modeller to design most of my 3D models, Killan's fee for designing the A Class appears reasonable. 

By the way 544 in the photo of the train arriving at Broadstone is one of the ligher/shorer C Class equally deserving of being modelled

I am heavily comitted to 21mm gauge and working in metal, but its looking increasingly unlikely at this stage that I will get around to building a 21mm layout and may have to compromise on OO to build a layout.

Well done for showing such initiative

John,

Your plans and advice have been invaluable, I'm happy to have one of your 650s, and my plans would stay plans without Killian's wizardry! The talent lies with him, and he puts up with my mad ideas!

I'm hoping my 650 will be complete shortly.  Markits seem to be on hiatus. Other sources seem to be drying up also, quite difficult getting wheels for the 650. 

D16/3 is indeed Hornby. The B1 drivers slot straight in, and have the same bearings and gear. The only thing that needs to be changed out is the crankpin, the geared set on the B1s has crankpins for walschearts, so Killian had the idea to pop them out and the ones from the old wheels were popped in. 

Pickups were persuaded into place easily, was just a matter of trimming length off the brake shoes and the sand pipe.

Will have to change out that C for an A!

 

Edited December 10, 2024 by GSR 800

[GSR 800]

Just to add, actual loco + tender shell would cost around 55 euro

[GSR 800]

On 10/12/2024 at 11:50 PM, GSR 800 said:

John,

Your plans and advice have been invaluable, I'm happy to have one of your 650s, and my plans would stay plans without Killian's wizardry! The talent lies with him, and he puts up with my mad ideas!

I'm hoping my 650 will be complete shortly.  Markits seem to be on hiatus. Other sources seem to be drying up also, quite difficult getting wheels for the 650. 

D16/3 is indeed Hornby. The B1 drivers slot straight in, and have the same bearings and gear. The only thing that needs to be changed out is the crankpin, the geared set on the B1s has crankpins for walschearts, so Killian had the idea to pop them out and the ones from the old wheels were popped in. 

Pickups were persuaded into place easily, was just a matter of trimming length off the brake shoes and the sand pipe.

Will have to change out that C for an A!

 

Using the B1 drivers unfortunately caused the loco to be a poorer puller than she had been. I replaced these with a Princess Royals 6'6 wheelset, which while less accurate, solved the issue.

With the Woolwich door complete, the A class is now next up.

 

Edited June 30, 2025 by GSR 800

[NorthWallDocker]

Yes, I would be interested in a MGWR Class A locomotive and tender.  I would want to see the design and print quality first, of course.  But I'm interested.

[Jb1911]

Was there every anymore done with this

[GSR 800]

7 minutes ago, Jb1911 said:

Was there every anymore done with this

Update earlier this month

[jhb171achill]

On 30/6/2025 at 3:44 PM, NorthWallDocker said:

Yes, I would be interested in a MGWR Class A locomotive and tender.  I would want to see the design and print quality first, of course.  But I'm interested.

Me too.

[leslie10646]

I'm pretty sure that I said I'd be interested too, @GSR 800.

I told my potential builder I'd leave him mine as well as pay for the building, but hopefully I'll get to run it a few times .......

[GSR 800]

@Killian Keane is making good progress on the A class, capturing the look of these handsome machines perfectly!

Bless his patience doing all those rivets!

[jhb171achill]

That's looking great. Do we know at this stage what type of chassis / wheels / motor it's likely to fit?

My Dugort Harbour layout is based in West Kerry, thus GSWR land, rather than anywhere in the west. (The real "Dugort" is a tiny village on Achill Island, and its "harbour" is tinier still!). I

Reason - when the layout was conceived, nothing MGWR-ish was available. This, and a conversion of something to a J26 0.6.0T, and perhaps a 3D MGWR coach of some sort, could be a game-changer!

[GSR 800]

4 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

That's looking great. Do we know at this stage what type of chassis / wheels / motor it's likely to fit?

My Dugort Harbour layout is based in West Kerry, thus GSWR land, rather than anywhere in the west. (The real "Dugort" is a tiny village on Achill Island, and its "harbour" is tinier still!). I

Reason - when the layout was conceived, nothing MGWR-ish was available. This, and a conversion of something to a J26 0.6.0T, and perhaps a 3D MGWR coach of some sort, could be a game-changer!

Hi John,

Hornby D16/3 with Hornby spares Princess Royal 6'6 drivers inserted in place of the 6'9s they have. This is a compromise between getting close to the smaller driving wheels of the A class and the model still running wheel, I tried smaller drivers but the loco couldn't haul anything with them. 

Both a J26 and MGWR coaches have been discussed before! If theres demand it can happen. I see @Bullet_Wanderer has produced wonderful 3d cad models of the J26 in both their MGWR and later CIE configurations. Would be interesting to see if these could be modified to fit an rtr chassis and 3d printed!

 

 

[Bullet_Wanderer]

15 minutes ago, GSR 800 said:

Both a J26 and MGWR coaches have been discussed before! If theres demand it can happen. I see @Bullet_Wanderer has produced wonderful 3d cad models of the J26 in both their MGWR and later CIE configurations. Would be interesting to see if these could be modified to fit an rtr chassis and 3d printed!

 

 

Cheers! Myself and @Metrovik have been working back and forth (me tweaking the model, him tweaking it for 3D printing and doing test prints, some good ones came out tonight actually!) on the J26 with the hopes to eventually get it fitted on a Hornby Chassis! As well as that, in my project I've modelled a couple of the MGWR 6 wheelers, they're a bit stylised at the moment but with some tweaking (or maybe just redoing the model from scratch) it'd be something that maybe could be slapped onto a different coach's body. I've no experience 3D printing myself but Metrovik's gotten some great results with the model!

[GSR 800]

13 minutes ago, Bullet_Wanderer said:

Cheers! Myself and @Metrovik have been working back and forth (me tweaking the model, him tweaking it for 3D printing and doing test prints, some good ones came out tonight actually!) on the J26 with the hopes to eventually get it fitted on a Hornby Chassis! As well as that, in my project I've modelled a couple of the MGWR 6 wheelers, they're a bit stylised at the moment but with some tweaking (or maybe just redoing the model from scratch) it'd be something that maybe could be slapped onto a different coach's body. I've no experience 3D printing myself but Metrovik's gotten some great results with the model!

Interesting, any particular chassis in mind for the J26?

[Metrovik]

9 hours ago, GSR 800 said:

Interesting, any particular chassis in mind for the J26?

Probably a Hornby terrier, however I don't have one to hand so I don't know for certain the specific dimensions. 

[GSR 800]

1 hour ago, Metrovik said:

Probably a Hornby terrier, however I don't have one to hand so I don't know for certain the specific dimensions. 

Terrier is a bit 'off' dimension wise and has significantly smaller driving wheels.

Edited 9 hours ago by GSR 800

[Galteemore]

LNER J52 is better for wheel size, but wheelbase is about 4mm too long 

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Galteemore said:

LNER J52 is better for wheel size, but wheelbase is about 4mm too long 

Would it fit the print though?

[GSR 800]

4 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Would it fit the print though?

The big problem with any rtr model is they likely use the full height of the boiler, and they almost all have a higher pitch (in or this case saddle tanks) compared to the J26.

You can jig a few mil here and there lengthwise, wheelbase, especially under the tanks isn't a huge issue within reason as long as it doesn't completely foul the cab opening.

[Galteemore]

Absolutely. Easiest tank locos of all to to play around with are when the tanks and wheels align. When you have footplate splashers to accommodate it can get a bit messy. 

20 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Would it fit the print though?

I think an expert could tweak the print to fit within reasonable limits. Some of my own scratch and kit locos contain all manner of cutting and shaping where it doesn’t show, simply to accommodate the mech 

[Bullet_Wanderer]

How about using a J72 for the base ? Might be a little larger than a J26 but the overall shape is roughly the same ? I’ve seen someone on this forum convert one of these to a J26 likeness with great results before .  

 

If anyone had to hand the rough measurements of the J52 or J72’s base and motor proportions I could have a rough look at how they might fit the top half of a J26 (that’s a lot of J numbers )

[jhb171achill]

22 minutes ago, Bullet_Wanderer said:

How about using a J72 for the base ? Might be a little larger than a J26 but the overall shape is roughly the same ? I’ve seen someone on this forum convert one of these to a J26 likeness with great results before .  

 

If anyone had to hand the rough measurements of the J52 or J72’s base and motor proportions I could have a rough look at how they might fit the top half of a J26 (that’s a lot of J numbers )

Now THAT looks more like it. I had thought at one stage of getting one of those and just repainting it. Is there room inside it, as it is, for a DCC chip?

 

[GSR 800]

4 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Now THAT looks more like it. I had thought at one stage of getting one of those and just repainting it. Is there room inside it, as it is, for a DCC chip?

 

that specific one is the bachmann split chassis, though bachmann have released a new tooling in 2019 IIRC.

The J72 is a bit longer and the wheels smaller.

Eoin Murray converted one to an MGWR P class

Edited 1 hour ago by GSR 800

[Galteemore]

Arguably you could start with a Bachmann J71 if you want a quick conversion. Better sized driving wheels and DCC ready https://railsofsheffield.com/products/bachmann-31-069-ner-e-j71-68260-br-black-early-emblem-steam-tank-locomotive

Edited 1 hour ago by Galteemore

[Killian Keane]

All I'll say regarding the J26 is wait and see, I have confidence itll be the closest looking Irish model to its prototype Ive done

[Bullet_Wanderer]

14 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Arguably you could start with a Bachmann J71 if you want a quick conversion. Better sized driving wheels and DCC ready https://railsofsheffield.com/products/bachmann-31-069-ner-e-j71-68260-br-black-early-emblem-steam-tank-locomotive

Didn’t even realise there was a J71! That definitely looks a lot closer overall  

[GSR 800]

25 minutes ago, Killian Keane said:

All I'll say regarding the J26 is wait and see, I have confidence itll be the closest looking Irish model to its prototype Ive done

watch this space!