Bachmann CIE coaches

[Tractionman]

I've no idea what the credibility is of these but thought they'd be of interest, the boxes are marked as LMS so I'm assuming someone has done a respray?

https://clarkrailworks.com/collections/new-arrivals/products/bachmann-oo-rake-of-5-cie-irish-coaches-copy

 

Cheers,

Keith 

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Kosher Bachmann/Murphy products
Produced in 2001 to run with the N Class Moguls which he had produced with Bachmann the previous year

[jhb171achill]

On 3/1/2025 at 8:18 PM, Tractionman said:

I've no idea what the credibility is of these but thought they'd be of interest, the boxes are marked as LMS so I'm assuming someone has done a respray?

https://clarkrailworks.com/collections/new-arrivals/products/bachmann-oo-rake-of-5-cie-irish-coaches-copy

 

Cheers,

Keith 

 

Correct. In reality, they’re utterly unlike anything which CIE or any of its constituent companies ever possessed - they’re an exact equivalent of a  BR “Blue Pullman” masquerading as a Donegal railcar, by slapping red and cream paint on it.

They are indeed standard LMS designs.

The dark green isn’t quite right, and the lining is far too wide.

BUT: the positives.

1. Cheap way of a representation of steam era coaches, acceptable to many as a reasonable compromise, and alternative to complex scratch building.

2. Part of a “train set” with a “Woolwich” K class.

3. Biggest advantage of the lot; while I said the green isn’t quite right for CIE (though it’s not a million miles off), it actually IS a reasonable approximation to UTA Green - and being a successor to the LMS NCC, the UTA (and early NIR) did indeed have vehicles this design, brought over here when the AfD’s grandfathers bombed Belfast’s NCC carriage sidings in the 1940s. I travelled in them, with their musty-smelling upholstery, in the 1960s. (Provincial Leslie will recall them too, operating out of Londonwaterside station!).

So scrape the CIE stuff off, add UTA stuff, and stick a “Jeep” up front (rtr, anyone?) and say ye go.

Better still, buy the LMS ones, alter the lettering to NCC version, and model that MOST neglected Irish railway, the NCC!

As an aside, the Derry Central, along with the Dungiven, Draperstown and Ballyclare branches, are perfect layout fodder…..

 

 

As a further aside, I believe the last steam-era coach in passenger service was an ex-NCC 1926-built open third, latterly used as an intermediate, complete with old varnished wooden seat frames, in an MED railcar set as late as about 1981/2. I travelled in that a number of times, the last being in a state of pleasant inebriation after some sort of music festival… 

[Mol_PMB]

If you do the UTA thing, then you can always run them with a CIE loco south of the border, and even south of Dublin:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255883237/

 

[Darius43]

First time reading this thread.  Just a few days ago I repainted one of these coaches into UTA livery.

Cheers

Darius

[airfixfan]

On 4/1/2025 at 1:17 AM, WRENNEIRE said:

Kosher Bachmann/Murphy products
Produced in 2001 to run with the N Class Moguls which he had produced with Bachmann the previous year

526

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Darius43 said:

First time reading this thread.  Just a few days ago I repainted one of these coaches into UTA livery.

Cheers

Darius

Now those REALLY look the business!

On 11/1/2025 at 11:39 PM, Mol_PMB said:

If you do the UTA thing, then you can always run them with a CIE loco south of the border, and even south of Dublin:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255883237/

 

Not so much these - they're NCC designs. As far as I'm aware, almost if not literally exclusively, only ex-GNR stock was used south of Lisburn, never mind the border. While some ex-GNR coaches certainly migrated north to ex-NCC lines, the NCC stock didn't tend to come over much to the GNR. Can't say it NEVER happened; quite possibly did - but a whole train of NCC stock as far away as Dublin I would very much doubt. However, the world is crying out for asveral 1960s-era UTA-based layouts of some sort anyway!

But a "Jeep" is needed. For those who have them, there's the 00 Works GNR 0.6.0....

[Mol_PMB]

Regarding styling, the leading coach here has a lot in common with the model shown above:

 

17 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

But a "Jeep" is needed.

Well I suppose we'll just have to wait for the next IRM 'big announcement' and then be either delighted or disappointed...

I reckon that silver coach on the right would follow very nicely from the Park Royals - same bogies, chassis and interior.

[jhb171achill]

Yes, that leading one is indeed an NCC one, as is the fourth. Rare in Dublin.

You could always run them mixed with a couple of GNR designs built from kits by SSM or Worsley.

I have always had an idea like Patrick Davey's Knockloughrim - a layout based on some sort of mid-Ulster line, where NCC and GNR stock would be equally common. Or a shunting terminus type of set-up, using a Jeep, old carriages like above, and of course an AEC or MPD railcar set....

Time, though, space and money mitigate otherwise....

16 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

I reckon that silver coach on the right would follow very nicely from the Park Royals - same bogies, chassis and interior.

I'd say if IRM bring out a laminate - and I hope they do - they'd have silver, green, and black'n'tan, the latter with the initial "2" on the doors, and later without. While the last of them were still in traffic 14 years after the "supertrain" livery was introduced, none of them ever got that.

One detail livery issue with silver coaches is the numbers. On some, they were standerd "eau=de-nil" light green, but on others the numbers were RED. This is also reflected on Fry's models, but I do vaguely recall seeing a red number on something when I was a nipper. I have not yet been able to ascertain why some were red and some light green.

By the way, no silver rolling stock ever carries the flying snail. or any type of lining. Only the coach number and class number on doors. Tin vans, of course, only had the number.

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, that leading one is indeed an NCC one, as is the fourth. Rare in Dublin.

You could always run them mixed with a couple of GNR designs built from kits by SSM or Worsley.

I have always had an idea like Patrick Davey's Knockloughrim - a layout based on some sort of mid-Ulster line, where NCC and GNR stock would be equally common. Or a shunting terminus type of set-up, using a Jeep, old carriages like above, and of course an AEC or MPD railcar set....

Time, though, space and money mitigate otherwise....

I'd say if IRM bring out a laminate - and I hope they do - they'd have silver, green, and black'n'tan, the latter with the initial "2" on the doors, and later without. While the last of them were still in traffic 14 years after the "supertrain" livery was introduced, none of them ever got that.

One detail livery issue with silver coaches is the numbers. On some, they were standerd "eau=de-nil" light green, but on others the numbers were RED. This is also reflected on Fry's models, but I do vaguely recall seeing a red number on something when I was a nipper. I have not yet been able to ascertain why some were red and some light green.

By the way, no silver rolling stock ever carries the flying snail. or any type of lining. Only the coach number and class number on doors. Tin vans, of course, only had the number.

Most interesting.

Some tin vans did have some other lettering, 'GUARD' on the door and the boiler vans had 'NOT TO BE ROUGH SHUNTED' on the ends, though the latter soon disappeared under the muck. Here's some nice views from Ernie:

I have also found it difficult to find colour views that are clear enough to show the lettering colour, but I've definitely seen one photo clearly with red lettering - I just can't find it now! It would be nice to know which types of vehicle had the red lettering and which had the green.

[Galteemore]

Could that leading coach behind the VS be one of the ex LMS coaches which ended up on the GN? It is rather narrower than the other stock 

Edited Sunday at 16:17 by Galteemore

[airfixfan]

Have a photo with a CIE tin van in Strabane in silver livery in my new book out soon on Strabane

Edited Sunday at 17:10 by airfixfan

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Could that leading coach behind the VS be one of the ex LMS coaches which ended up on the GN? It is rather narrower than the other stock 

I think they're Belfast-built NCC, as the LMS ones were lower too.

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

 It would be nice to know which types of vehicle had the red lettering and which had the green.

I have not been able to get to the bottom of this at any stage. The only vehicles I haven't seen red on were TPOs, but that's not to say that none of them had it when in silver.