CIE 1950s train

[GSR 800]

Work done tonight, sides soldered on, doorways soldered in also.

And now a question. I was reading through one of the Irish railway rover books, which had a photo of a Night Up Galway mail train at Mullingar.

The book mentioned that it was waiting for the Up Sligo mail, which in turn would then wait for the Down Mail before returning to Sligo. Am I right then in thinking that the Sligo Mail was pretty much a Shuttle from Mullingar to Sligo, first going up to Mullingar, meeting the Up Galway there and having its Mail transferred to that train, then waiting for the Down Galway Mail, having mail transferred to it, then heading back to Sligo.

OR was it the case that the trains were simply split and joined as per other trains at Mullingar? There's a photo of a Cattle Engine shunting a TPO tin van at Mullingar somewhere..

Edited Sunday at 20:55 by GSR 800

[Mol_PMB]

I probably have a suitable WTT to answer your question, but I’m now away from home for a couple of days. Someone else might get there first. 
 

The van is looking excellent. 

[GSR 800]

5 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I probably have a suitable WTT to answer your question, but I’m now away from home for a couple of days. Someone else might get there first. 
 

The van is looking excellent. 

Many thanks Mol

[jhb171achill]

30 minutes ago, GSR 800 said:

Work done tonight, sides soldered on, doorways soldered in also.

And now a question. I was reading through one of the Irish railway rover books, which had a photo of a Night Up Galway mail train at Mullingar.

The book mentioned that it was waiting for the Up Sligo mail, which in turn would then wait for the Down Mail before returning to Sligo. Am I right then in thinking that the Sligo Mail was pretty much a Shuttle from Mullingar to Sligo, first going up to Mullingar, meeting the Up Galway there and having its Mail transferred to that train, then waiting for the Down Galway Mail, having mail transferred to it, then heading back to Sligo.

OR was it the case that the trains were simply split and joined as per other trains at Mullingar? There's a photo of a Cattle Engine shunting a TPO tin van at Mullingar somewhere..

Yes, that seemed to be what it was the several times I travelled on it in the 1970s. You had to change at Mullingar and wait the guts of an hour.

[GSR 800]

7 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, that seemed to be what it was the several times I travelled on it in the 1970s. You had to change at Mullingar and wait the guts of an hour.

Interesting, I wonder if this went back into the steam era. Many thanks, JB.

I also presume that, given the Jail Siding was almost always full of coaches in every photo I've seen of it (admittedly, later on it was RPSI stock), that trains that were split at Mullingar would've been strengthened with extra coaches. 

 

[jhb171achill]

36 minutes ago, GSR 800 said:

Interesting, I wonder if this went back into the steam era. Many thanks, JB.

I also presume that, given the Jail Siding was almost always full of coaches in every photo I've seen of it (admittedly, later on it was RPSI stock), that trains that were split at Mullingar would've been strengthened with extra coaches. 

 

In steam times, yes! But - see my post below for 1973.

Edited Sunday at 22:14 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

Would have been a fairly efficient way of doing business, saving Sligo crew a lodging turn to Dublin.

[jhb171achill]

In the 1973 WTT, for example, when mullingar - Athlone was still fully functional, the Galway mails were as follows:

Down Day Mail

08:20 ex Connolly

09:29 - 09:36 Mullingar

11:30 Galway

Down night Mail

Pearse 20:05

Connolly d 20:15

Mullingar 21:24 - 21:31

Galway 23:34

No up day mail working   

Up Night Mail

Galway d. 20:15

Mullingar 23:32 - 23:45

Connolly 01:00 next morning

Pearse 01:30

 

The Sligo services were:

Down Day Mail

Connolly 09:05

Mullingar 10:22 - 10:26   Described leaving Dublin as "Passenger", but leaving Mullingar as "PAS MAIL"; they possibly switched the bags from the earlier Galway Mail here? Or, it left Dublin with the mail?

Sligo 12:40

Down Night Mail

Leaves Mullingar as a connection off the Galway at 23:40

Sligo 02:05 next morning

No Up Day Mail

Up Night Mail

Sligo 20:25   (This is the one I travelled on several times, in all cases with a pair of 121s up front).

Mullingar 23:21

Await Galway train. Returns to Sligo at 23:40 as above.

 

So - in summary - the morning ones went through, possibly; the evening one was a Galway - Dublin one, and a Sligo - Mullingar one.

 

 

[GSR 800]

18 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

In both cases, yes, almost certainly!

 

6 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Would have been a fairly efficient way of doing business, saving Sligo crew a lodging turn to Dublin.

Very much unfortunately for me modelling Mullingar, I was not around for any of the interesting junction operations!

[GSR 800]

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

In the 1973 WTT, for example, when mullingar - Athlone was still fully functional, the Galway mails were as follows:

Down Day Mail

08:20 ex Connolly

09:29 - 09:36 Mullingar

11:30 Galway

Down night Mail

Pearse 20:05

Connolly d 20:15

Mullingar 21:24 - 21:31

Galway 23:34

No up day mail working   

Up Night Mail

Galway d. 20:15

Mullingar 23:32 - 23:45

Connolly 01:00 next morning

Pearse 01:30

 

The Sligo services were:

Down Day Mail

Connolly 09:05

Mullingar 10:22 - 10:26   Described leaving Dublin as "Passenger", but leaving Mullingar as "PAS MAIL"; they possibly switched the bags from the earlier Galway Mail here? Or, it left Dublin with the mail?

Sligo 12:40

Down Night Mail

Leaves Mullingar as a connection off the Galway at 23:40

Sligo 02:05 next morning

No Up Day Mail

Up Night Mail

Sligo 20:25   (This is the one I travelled on several times, in all cases with a pair of 121s up front).

Mullingar 23:21

Await Galway train. Returns to Sligo at 23:40 as above.

 

So - in summary - the morning ones went through, possibly; the evening one was a Galway - Dublin one, and a Sligo - Mullingar one.

 

 

Many thanks for this JB, greatly appreciated. Regarding the down Sligo Day Mail, is there a Galway/Westport-bound PAS service leaving Mullingar around the same time? I wonder if the Sligo Mail was ever left overnight at Mullingar, awaiting a Galway bound train before heading for Sligo as the Day Mail?

[jhb171achill]

19 minutes ago, GSR 800 said:

Many thanks for this JB, greatly appreciated. Regarding the down Sligo Day Mail, is there a Galway/Westport-bound PAS service leaving Mullingar around the same time? I wonder if the Sligo Mail was ever left overnight at Mullingar, awaiting a Galway bound train before heading for Sligo as the Day Mail?

10:22 was when the down day Sligo got to Mullingar. The Westport table shows nothing going via Mullingar by then - all via Portarlington and Athlone. However the 03:10 Dublin to Ballina Newspaper train arrived via Mullingar in Athlone at 04:54, and Ballina by 06.57.  

[Mayner]

Comparison of Galway and Sligo line workings from the 1960 and 1980 WTTs indicate that the Sligo Night Mail was an out and back working from Sligo and the Sligo "Day Mail" in the 1960WTT was a through train to & from Dublin.

The Dublin-Galway 'night mail" were the only scheduled mail working on Mullingar-Athlone section in the 1980s timetable, the "day mail" that operated between Dunlaoire Pier and Galway had been withdrawn in connection with DART works.

Although the 'Day Mail"  1980 WTT. During the 1980s the consist of the early morning 08:00? Heuston-Galway and its mid afternoon 15:10? return included a TPO and a Luggage/Brake in its consist. During the 60s & 70s Day Mail connected with Sealink Mail Boat service to an from Holyhead running through to and from Dunlaoire Pier. The Day Mail was cancelled when the connection to the Pier was severed in connection with the DART during the late 70s and Galway Line passenger services reduced from 5 to 4 return trains daily.

The note (Ltd) in the train describition on the WTT indicates that the train operates as a mail train with limited passenger accommodation often 1 coach. I travelled a couple of times between Connolly and Galway on the 8:40 during Aug 77-78,  mainly carrying passengers off the overnight Holyhead boat usually hauled by a 001, of conventional stock with buffet car possibly 7-8 coaches unfortunately don't remember if a TPO or vans were attached.

Night Mail may have included fitted wagons as tail traffic at least up to the 70s. I have a photo of an Up Night Mail arriving at Ballysadare in the early 60s consist made up of B149, 4w heating Van Black & Tan,  ex-GSR side Corr coach Late 50s Green, Bogie TPO (possibly ex-GSR Green, approx 3-4 H vans.

David Malone supplied photos of 4w Bullied Vans in consist of Night Mail during late 60s-early 70s, 4w Post Office van marshalled next to loco ( window side of PO Van facing North/East luggage bags on hooks) followed by Hooded vans with 4w heating van marshalled at rear of train, may not have retained passenger accomodation?

The 1980 WTT indicates that the Night Mail may have lost its passenger accommodation, vaguely remember seeing 'a jackpot" with three trains crossing at Maynooth one evening during the early 80s. The down Sligo Liner was first to arrive and was propelled into the layby siding at the Leixlip end of the station, the Night Mail was next to arrive and routed into the passing loop, 141 Class, BR Van, TPO and a number of Luggage/Brakes. Up Sligo Pass arrived pair of 121 Class don't remember if coaches were Supertrain of conventional stock-----------its now a long long time ago!

A Westport portion of the Night Mail may have operated into the 80s, I remember seeing a photo of a 141 + 1 Luggage Van with An Post Renault 5 Van waiting at Roscommon. Presumably An Post Staff had enough time while between Connolly & Athlone to sort Mayo Road mail.

Down Trains	1960				1980
	Galway Pas. M		Galway Sligo Westport Pas Mail (Ltd)			Dublin-Galway Mail M-F
Westland Row		8:40 am		8:10 pm
Connolly (Mail Centre)						21:45
Mullingar	9:55 am	10:03 am	9:30 pm	9:48 pm	22:57	23:07
Athlone	10:56 am	11:04 am	10:44 pm	10:56 pm
Galway
	Pas M					Mullingar-Sligo Mail T:S
Westland Row		9:25 am
Mullingar	10:40 am	10:46 am		11:25 pm		00:35
Sligo	1:30 pm		2:20 am		2:30
	1960				1980
Up  Trains	Galway Pas. M		Galway Sligo Westport Pas Mail (Ltd)			Sligo-Mullingar Mail
Galway		3:30 pm		8:15 pm		22:00
Athlone	4:59 pm	5:12 pm	9:51 pm	10:05 pm	23:10	23:20
Mullingar	6:07 pm	6:19 pm	10:56 pm	11:15 pm	00:18	00:33
Connolly (Mail Centre)					01:45
Westland Row	7:40 pm		12:40 am
Sligo		2:25 pm		7:30 pm		19:45
Mullingar	5:13 pm	5:18 pm	10:55 pm	11:15 pm	22:25
Connolly
Westland Row	6:38 pm		12:40 am

 

 

[GSR 800]

19 hours ago, Mayner said:

Comparison of Galway and Sligo line workings from the 1960 and 1980 WTTs indicate that the Sligo Night Mail was an out and back working from Sligo and the Sligo "Day Mail" in the 1960WTT was a through train to & from Dublin.

The Dublin-Galway 'night mail" were the only scheduled mail working on Mullingar-Athlone section in the 1980s timetable, the "day mail" that operated between Dunlaoire Pier and Galway had been withdrawn in connection with DART works.

Although the 'Day Mail"  1980 WTT. During the 1980s the consist of the early morning 08:00? Heuston-Galway and its mid afternoon 15:10? return included a TPO and a Luggage/Brake in its consist. During the 60s & 70s Day Mail connected with Sealink Mail Boat service to an from Holyhead running through to and from Dunlaoire Pier. The Day Mail was cancelled when the connection to the Pier was severed in connection with the DART during the late 70s and Galway Line passenger services reduced from 5 to 4 return trains daily.

The note (Ltd) in the train describition on the WTT indicates that the train operates as a mail train with limited passenger accommodation often 1 coach. I travelled a couple of times between Connolly and Galway on the 8:40 during Aug 77-78,  mainly carrying passengers off the overnight Holyhead boat usually hauled by a 001, of conventional stock with buffet car possibly 7-8 coaches unfortunately don't remember if a TPO or vans were attached.

Night Mail may have included fitted wagons as tail traffic at least up to the 70s. I have a photo of an Up Night Mail arriving at Ballysadare in the early 60s consist made up of B149, 4w heating Van Black & Tan,  ex-GSR side Corr coach Late 50s Green, Bogie TPO (possibly ex-GSR Green, approx 3-4 H vans.

David Malone supplied photos of 4w Bullied Vans in consist of Night Mail during late 60s-early 70s, 4w Post Office van marshalled next to loco ( window side of PO Van facing North/East luggage bags on hooks) followed by Hooded vans with 4w heating van marshalled at rear of train, may not have retained passenger accomodation?

The 1980 WTT indicates that the Night Mail may have lost its passenger accommodation, vaguely remember seeing 'a jackpot" with three trains crossing at Maynooth one evening during the early 80s. The down Sligo Liner was first to arrive and was propelled into the layby siding at the Leixlip end of the station, the Night Mail was next to arrive and routed into the passing loop, 141 Class, BR Van, TPO and a number of Luggage/Brakes. Up Sligo Pass arrived pair of 121 Class don't remember if coaches were Supertrain of conventional stock-----------its now a long long time ago!

A Westport portion of the Night Mail may have operated into the 80s, I remember seeing a photo of a 141 + 1 Luggage Van with An Post Renault 5 Van waiting at Roscommon. Presumably An Post Staff had enough time while between Connolly & Athlone to sort Mayo Road mail.

Down Trains	1960				1980
	Galway Pas. M		Galway Sligo Westport Pas Mail (Ltd)			Dublin-Galway Mail M-F
Westland Row		8:40 am		8:10 pm
Connolly (Mail Centre)						21:45
Mullingar	9:55 am	10:03 am	9:30 pm	9:48 pm	22:57	23:07
Athlone	10:56 am	11:04 am	10:44 pm	10:56 pm
Galway
	Pas M					Mullingar-Sligo Mail T:S
Westland Row		9:25 am
Mullingar	10:40 am	10:46 am		11:25 pm		00:35
Sligo	1:30 pm		2:20 am		2:30
	1960				1980
Up  Trains	Galway Pas. M		Galway Sligo Westport Pas Mail (Ltd)			Sligo-Mullingar Mail
Galway		3:30 pm		8:15 pm		22:00
Athlone	4:59 pm	5:12 pm	9:51 pm	10:05 pm	23:10	23:20
Mullingar	6:07 pm	6:19 pm	10:56 pm	11:15 pm	00:18	00:33
Connolly (Mail Centre)					01:45
Westland Row	7:40 pm		12:40 am
Sligo		2:25 pm		7:30 pm		19:45
Mullingar	5:13 pm	5:18 pm	10:55 pm	11:15 pm	22:25
Connolly
Westland Row	6:38 pm		12:40 am

 

 

Many thanks John, very useful indeed!