Pre-grouping 4-4-0s from Rapido

[Mol_PMB]

Rapido seem to be having a splurge of new annoucements recently, including several classes of pre-grouping 4-4-0 locos:

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/lner-d40/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/secr-g-class/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/hr-loch-class/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/mr-483/

Whist not directly relevant to Irish modelling, some of these might be useful conversion fodder, or provide good chassis for 3D-printed Irish bodies.

At a push some could be repainted in Irish livery and be 'close enough'.

The most recent announcement (the GNoSR / SECR type) has some features in common with the MGWR A class, for example. The cab and firebox would need some work...

[Galteemore]

42 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Rapido seem to be having a splurge of new annoucements recently, including several classes of pre-grouping 4-4-0 locos:

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/lner-d40/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/secr-g-class/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/hr-loch-class/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-category/uk/oo-gauge/oo-locomotives/mr-483/

Whist not directly relevant to Irish modelling, some of these might be useful conversion fodder, or provide good chassis for 3D-printed Irish bodies.

At a push some could be repainted in Irish livery and be 'close enough'.

The most recent announcement (the GNoSR / SECR type) has some features in common with the MGWR A class, for example. The cab and firebox would need some work...

Just noticed that too and been wondering! If nothing else, the chassis will be useful to many 

[Mayner]

Don't know about other dimensions the GNSR/SECR locos had 6' driving wheels & 18X26 cylinders same as the ex DSER D8 & D9  4-4-0s & C2 4-4-2T which appear to have been a tank version of the D8.

The 4 D9s were elegant locos in their original form but had the reputation of being a failure & poor steamers, although one was rebuilt with a D8 boiler, the un-rebuilt locos had all gone by the mid-30s the rebuilt loco in 1940. One of the 2 D8 was a Civil War casualty the surviving loco withdrawn in 1949.

Personally I don't believe its worthwhile to pay over £200 for a loco that requires major modification or a new body/superstructure to resemble an Irish loco. 

Harry (GSR800) has already comissioned a 3D printed model of the rebuilt MGWR As/GSR D6 using a Hornby D16/3 4-4-0 Chassis fitted with Hornby B1 wheel sets, the Hornby D16/3 may be a workable chassis for ex-GSWR Coey D2,D10-12 family of 4-4-0 and almost £100 cheaper than the Rapido GNSR/SECR model, & re-wheeled with B1 (or heavens forbid Gibson or Magib) wheels potentiaally open up the widely used GSWR/GSR D4 family of mixed traffic 4-4-0s.

[GSR 800]

4 hours ago, Mayner said:

Don't know about other dimensions the GNSR/SECR locos had 6' driving wheels & 18X26 cylinders same as the ex DSER D8 & D9  4-4-0s & C2 4-4-2T which appear to have been a tank version of the D8.

The 4 D9s were elegant locos in their original form but had the reputation of being a failure & poor steamers, although one was rebuilt with a D8 boiler, the un-rebuilt locos had all gone by the mid-30s the rebuilt loco in 1940. One of the 2 D8 was a Civil War casualty the surviving loco withdrawn in 1949.

Personally I don't believe its worthwhile to pay over £200 for a loco that requires major modification or a new body/superstructure to resemble an Irish loco. 

Harry (GSR800) has already comissioned a 3D printed model of the rebuilt MGWR As/GSR D6 using a Hornby D16/3 4-4-0 Chassis fitted with Hornby B1 wheel sets, the Hornby D16/3 may be a workable chassis for ex-GSWR Coey D2,D10-12 family of 4-4-0 and almost £100 cheaper than the Rapido GNSR/SECR model, & re-wheeled with B1 (or heavens forbid Gibson or Magib) wheels potentiaally open up the widely used GSWR/GSR D4 family of mixed traffic 4-4-0s.

I swapped out the B1 wheelset for the (6'6) Princess Royal Wheelset as the loco had lost a good bit of pulling power with the smaller wheels. With Princess Royal wheels, this problem was solved. GSWR 4-4-0s had 6'7 wheels, whereas the Claud Hamiltons had 7ft drivers. 6'8 or 6'9 would be the likely choice if one felt like going for the larger GSWR machines, with 6'6 for the lower end compromise. 

Regarding 4-4-0s to 4-4-2s I've recently seen a 3d conversion advertised of the Bulleid conversion of a Q1 to the proposed 0-6-2 tank variant that he had proposed before moving onto proto leader designs. They've designed the bunker and faux chassis + slot for the bogie to seemingly slot onto the back of the Hornby Q1 model (and glued into place).

https://mademe.co.uk/product/never-built-range-q1-tank-oo/

Edited September 15 by GSR 800
Misremembered!

[David Holman]

Slightly surprised to see Mike Edge recommending larger wheels. On the prototype, tyres were allowed to wear down at least and inch or two before replacement and with flanges on models being somewhat oversized (P4 etc, excepted), had always thought accepted practice was to go down an inch or two to avoid them fouling footpaths or splashers.

[GSR 800]

37 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Slightly surprised to see Mike Edge recommending larger wheels. On the prototype, tyres were allowed to wear down at least and inch or two before replacement and with flanges on models being somewhat oversized (P4 etc, excepted), had always thought accepted practice was to go down an inch or two to avoid them fouling footpaths or splashers.

David,

Looked at the email again and you're quite right! Don't know how I got the wires crossed with that!

Post duly edited!

 

Edited September 15 by GSR 800

[StevieB]

They’ve also announced the Southern U class 2-6-0, which has the potential for a GSR K1a version. Unfortunately, the tender is wrong, the N/K1 is correct.

Stephen

[Horsetan]

3 hours ago, David Holman said:

Slightly surprised to see Mike Edge recommending larger wheels. On the prototype, tyres were allowed to wear down at least and inch or two before replacement and with flanges on models being somewhat oversized (P4 etc, excepted), had always thought accepted practice was to go down an inch or two to avoid them fouling footpaths or splashers.

Alan Gibson/AGW say (in their catalogue) that the tyre wear could be anything up to 2½ inches before new tyres were necessary.

[Killian Keane]

The Loch comes as a very pleasant surprise, you never quite know what you're going to get from Rapido!

[Galteemore]

7 minutes ago, Killian Keane said:

The Loch comes as a very pleasant surprise, you never quite know what you're going to get from Rapido!

It’s a pity that none of the chassis are generic black wheels. Would surely be an ideal 3d body print opportunity to produce something Irish. The dimensions must be a rough match for something 5’3!

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

It’s a pity that none of the chassis are generic black wheels. Would surely be an ideal 3d body print opportunity to produce something Irish. The dimensions must be a rough match for something 5’3!

The Loch is quite unusual for a 4-4-0 in being outside cylinder, not many of those in Ireland except much bigger blue locos. Though I suppose you wouldn’t have to use the cylinders and connecting rods.
The D40 has proportions and shape visually similar to MGWR A class (original) but I haven’t checked the dimensions. 
There may be some options to convert to 2-4-0 tender loco types too? 
But as noted above they are relatively expensive as a donor chassis and very tricky to regauge if required. 

[Galteemore]

29 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

The Loch is quite unusual for a 4-4-0 in being outside cylinder, not many of those in Ireland except much bigger blue locos. Though I suppose you wouldn’t have to use the cylinders and connecting rods.
The D40 has proportions and shape visually similar to MGWR A class (original) but I haven’t checked the dimensions. 
There may be some options to convert to 2-4-0 tender loco types too? 
But as noted above they are relatively expensive as a donor chassis and very tricky to regauge if required. 

Thanks Paul. Was thinking mostly of the inside cylinder version. I just know that many people would be happy with a steam loco that looks more or less right, given that no workaday RTR Irish steam loco seems on the near horizon ! I wasn’t even considering 21mm. If my experience in 7mm is anything to go by, when modelling 5’3 steam to scale gauge, you really need to build the whole thing as such from the get-go, such are the clearances involved. I retro-fitted a loco from 32 to 36.75 once and wouldn’t do it again . 

Edited September 15 by Galteemore

[Killian Keane]

Today theyve announced a GNR Atlantic tank, that seems quite the useful fodder for bashing 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/lner-c12-4-4-2t/

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, Killian Keane said:

Today theyve announced a GNR Atlantic tank, that seems quite the useful fodder for bashing 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/lner-c12-4-4-2t/

For those wondering what it might fit, key chassis dimensions of the real C2 / C12 are as follows:

• Driving wheel dia 5'7.5"
• Bogie and trailing wheel dia 3'7.5"
• Wheelbase 6'3" + 6'9" + 8'3" + 6'0" = 27'3"
• Length over buffers 36'6.25". Front overhang 4'0.25", rear 5'3".

(Source: GN loco history volume 3a, Groves)

It's not a million miles out from a GSWR 4-4-2T, but that had much smaller bogie wheels, a shorter bogie wheelbase and was generally shorter at the front end.

[GSR 800]

10 minutes ago, Killian Keane said:

Today theyve announced a GNR Atlantic tank, that seems quite the useful fodder for bashing 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/lner-c12-4-4-2t/

Very useful indeed, could cover DSER and GSWR Atlantic tanks very well indeed, possibly BCDR examples also.

How does it compare against the GNRI T2?

[Mol_PMB]

18 hours ago, GSR 800 said:

Very useful indeed, could cover DSER and GSWR Atlantic tanks very well indeed, possibly BCDR examples also.

How does it compare against the GNRI T2?

T2 is rather chunkier. Again, shorter bogie wheelbase and smaller bogie wheels, but 2' longer at the back than the C2 / C12.

• Driving wheel dia 5'9"
• Bogie and trailing wheel dia not listed
• Wheelbase 5'3" + 6'10.5" + 8'3" + 8'0"
• Length over buffers not listed

As for the GSWR, the earlier locos were 37-38, 317-320:

• Driving wheel dia 5'8.5"
• Bogie wheel dia 3'0"
• Trailing wheel dia 3'9"
• Wheelbase 5'3" + 6'5" + 7'9" + 6'0"
• Length over buffers 35'11"

The later batch were 27, 30-32:

• Driving wheel dia 5'8.5"
• Bogie wheel dia 3'0"
• Trailing wheel dia 3'9"
• Wheelbase 5'3" + 5'5" + 7'11" + 6'6"
• Length over buffers 31'.

I don't seem to have many dimensions for the DSER locos in my library.

Edited 12 hours ago by Mol_PMB
Differences between two GSWR variants

[Mol_PMB]

It's also worth noting that Rapido have collaborated with a 3D printing firm to offer alternative bodies for one of their other recently announced locos.

Narrow Lines - 009 Kerr, Stuart and Co. Sirdar 0-4-0 (Long Tank) - Rapido Trains - RMweb

Presumably they shared their CAD for the chassis/mechanism in that case.