Question - best coaches to be pulled by a Bachmann Woolwich in CIE black?

[cg-antrim]

May I draw upon the collective wisdom of the group to ask which models offer the most suitable coaches to be pulled by a Bachmann Woolwich in black? Apologies for my ignorance of the CIE scene.

[jhb171achill]

The good news, cg, is that just about anything goes - although a typical train would have had hardly any two coaches alike, a rake all of one type being inaccurate!

 

Only one "Woolwich" was ever black, and it was painted thus for the Rosslare - Cork boat train. That's not to say it didn't turn up elsewhere... Probably it did. The black was short lived too. So my first assumption is you are modelling somewhere in the "deep south"!

 

Others of the class, like all other loco's, were either lined CIE green (in a small number of cases) or the standard unlined battleship grey.

 

If you model pre-mid-fifties, then everything bar the three 800 class* was grey, including all Woolwiches. So I assume your layout is based late 50s.

 

So here goes. Your train will have a motley selection of brand new Park Royals and laminates in silver or lighter green if you're closer to 1960/1, but mostly old corridor GSWR stock, and more than a few Bredins. One feature will probably be one of the three clerestory coaches, possibly including the RPSI's twelve-wheeled 861, which was a brake tri-compo built as part of a set for the "Rosslare Express" in 1906.

 

These older coaches will be in the darker green with the broad light green stripes above and below window level.

 

A few horse boxes or a parcel van might bring up the rear, and somewhere there is likely to be a 6 wheel passenger brake or mail coach.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited August 15, 2013 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

...meant to add, re the * beside 800 class.... The GSR had one more green loco. Does anyone know what it was? It lasted in dirty state to CIE days.... It was a one-off which might make an interesting feature on a layout, after a heavy dose of Anthony's weathering, of course!

[jhb171achill]

An afterthought. If you model late 40s, early 50s, interesting livery variations apply. While your loco would need to be dipped into a pot of grey paint, with only the buffer beams being picked out in scarlet / red, the carriages could include some older wooden ones still in faded and weathered GSR maroon livery. This faded to a reddish brown colour when combined with brake dust. Pristine maroon was gone by this stage.

 

Pre 1955, all CIE coaches were the darker green, including the Bredins and the 1950/51 built CIE stock, which was to much the same pattern.

 

Needless to say, in the scenarios painted in all 3 posts above, all wagons are all-over grey. No black, no brown! And goods brakes were ten years away from getting the yellow / black wasp stripes on the duckets.

[heirflick]

...meant to add, re the * beside 800 class.... The GSR had one more green loco. Does anyone know what it was? It lasted in dirty state to CIE days.... It was a one-off which might make an interesting feature on a layout, after a heavy dose of Anthony's weathering, of course!

 

ya feckin teaser!! was it no 850 the 2-6-2 tank?

[jhb171achill]

Nope! Much smaller....

[heirflick]

an 0-4-0?

[jhb171achill]

Yip

[heirflick]

495?

[heirflick]

jesus hes gone - COME ON BACK J..........THE SUSPENCE IS KILLING ME!!!!

[Glenderg]

Anything to do with Uncle Arthur's Medicinal Tonic Jhb ???

[heirflick]

this richie?...

[Glenderg]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Didn't think we had any 0-4-0's, cos I've two of them smokie Joe models from eons ago that I wanted to convert and couldn't find a prototype, until I got two RPSI volumes from 1965 that detailed the Guinness Brewery in minute detail. The only other small fella I was thinking of was Sambo

 

[minister_for_hardship]

The GSR had an 0-4-0ST, ex Allmans Distillery. A broad gauge version of Peckett's 'Beaufort' type. Hard to tell what it livery it carried from pics in GSR ownership, being covered in gunk latterly.

 

May well have carried lined green, probably what Peckett's painted it as delivered.

 

Doubt the GSR would have bothered their barney painting it.

[heirflick]

The GSR had an 0-4-0ST, ex Allmans Distillery. A broad gauge version of Peckett's 'Beaufort' type. Hard to tell what it livery it carried from pics in GSR ownership, being covered in gunk latterly.

 

any pics?

[heirflick]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Didn't think we had any 0-4-0's, cos I've two of them smokie Joe models from eons ago that I wanted to convert and couldn't find a prototype, until I got two RPSI volumes from 1965 that detailed the Guinness Brewery in minute detail. The only other small fella I was thinking of was Sambo

 

 

the other possibility is the 'sentinel' - gsr class 280/1 long shot perhaps?

[Glenderg]

Oh yes! Well spotted Shem. Would love to see photos too Hardship!

[minister_for_hardship]

Not the Allman one, but of the same type in lined Works Grey.

 

 

 

http://www.martynbane.co.uk/images/peckett/locos/1011-peckett.jpg

 

There's a pic somewhere of the aftermath of it colliding with a horse and cart, horse went to stable in the sky I think.

Didn't last too long in CIE ownership, withdrawn in '49-ish and rather camera-shy. Used on the quays in Cork after GSR purchase.

Edited August 15, 2013 by minister_for_hardship

[minister_for_hardship]

the other possibility is the 'sentinel' - gsr class 280/1 long shot perhaps?

 

Think they were always black, as delivered. Again don't think the GSR would have bothered much with them, apart from renumbering.

[heirflick]

sentinel is out of the running -both were withdrawn in 1948, so it looks like sambo or guinness no3. bty thanks for the info minister!

[minister_for_hardship]

sentinel is out of the running -both were withdrawn in 1948, so it looks like sambo or guinness no3. bty thanks for the info minister!

 

Fun fact: Guinness no 3 was only named in preservation, the nameplates came off one of the Guinness-owned broad gauge diesels.

 

Think it may also have carried full skirts for street running too.

[heirflick]

Fun fact: Guinness no 3 was only named in preservation, the nameplates came off one of the Guinness-owned broad gauge diesels.

 

Think it may also have carried full skirts for street running too.

 

another learning day:tumbsup:

[jhb171achill]

Dix points to Minister for Hardship!

 

It was owned by Allmans, then the GSR acquired it. They affixed a standard Inchicore number plate to it (299) but it retained its makers lined green - in very shabby state - right to the end.

 

Good possibility for a dock shunting type of layout. I always thought a layout based on Albert Quay terminus would be fascinating!

[jhb171achill]

Guinness loco's were originally dark green, but all received the dark blue carried by the survivors at some stage, possibly immediately post war. Correct, the RPSI's No. 3 only acquired its name within its preservation era. The loco is currently being restored having spent many recent years as Whitehead shutter, and before that a spell on the DCDR.

 

The reason that the brewery's loco's were originally green is probably the same as for Allmans in West Cork, i.e. this is what they were delivered in from the makers. Few breweries were concerned with adopting a formal corporate livery image for their locomotives, any more than a builder would repaint all his JCBs, tower cranes and wheelbarrows in his house colours. Look at the Derry Harbour Commissioners loco no. 1 in Cultra; it carries its original livery to this day. And it is different to that on its erstwhile stablemate, the RPSI's "R H Smyth".

[cg-antrim]

Thanks! The loco in question is the Bachmann N class in black, no 383 - I didn't realise it was restricted in space and time to the Deep South in the mid 50s. Just bought two of the a-prototypical new Dapol coaches so hopefully they'll do in the meantime. I'll try to work towards a rake as per the suggestion. Thanks - I appreciate you sharing what you know.

[heirflick]

well, thats that! any other brain teasers for us john?

[jhb171achill]

Oh yes, heirflick. Here's one for you. What is the difference between a duck?

 

 

 

 

 

Answer - one of its legs is both the same.... ;-)

[jhb171achill]

Or, what / where were Ireland's first three internal combustion driven railcars?

[heirflick]

Or, what / where were Ireland's first three internal combustion driven railcars?

 

 

 

according to the bible...

 

departmental vehicle no 1- GSR (ex MGRW)

 

inspection railcar no 6 - tralee/dingle lr

 

inspection cars no's 2-5 'drewrys' - GSR

 

looking up this stuff is a good excercise in learning railway history - some of these cars were really beautiful little things!

[Mayner]

according to the bible...

 

departmental vehicle no 1- GSR (ex MGRW)

 

inspection railcar no 6 - tralee/dingle lr

 

inspection cars no's 2-5 'drewrys' - GSR

 

looking up this stuff is a good excercise in learning railway history - some of these cars were really beautiful little things!

 

Not sure if its getting more like Mastermind or Who wants to be a Millionaire with JHB a quizmaster:)

[Broithe]

As long as it's not Naked Jungle - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Jungle ...

[jhb171achill]

Don't worry, Broithe: I'm fully clothed...... and, as for internal combustion, don't forget the County Donegal's railcar no. 1, of 1906 vintage!

[jhb171achill]

And to go back to the original subject matter, the key for accuracy in putting together a train in pre 1970 times, irrespective of what engine was pulling it - would be the fact that rarely if ever did you get a train made of a rake of carriages all the one type. variety is the key; only in post-1970 NIR Mk 2 times, or CIE AC Mk 2 times did the spectacle of a whole train of the same coach type grace the rails.

 

Even Cravens, during the 1960s and 70s, were not in sets of same; they were interspersed with the last few Bredins, laminates (of various types) and Park Royals. They were to be seen with four and six wheeled "tin vans", BR vans and Dutch vans also.

[heirflick]

good stuff john:tumbsup: