Tales from the carriage shops

[Mayner]

Managed to find the remains of the decal set I used when I originally "completed" G617 (goodknows when) complete with replacements for the obliterated/damaged numbers and CIE, I also found a 'stash' of 6pin 1-2amp decoders I bought from the States several years ago but never used, when I had a problem with 0.7 amp decoders blowing on kit built locos.

I am using "Gun Blue" as a blackening agent in areas where paint damaged/chipped exposing brass before touching up paintwork

So at this stage a case of paint touch-ups and clear varnish to seal the decals and protect the paintwork.

Another un-finished job from several years ago was to fit the fuel tanks and gangway covers to a Tin Van I assembled about 5 years ago

Tanks (3D Printed) are both fixed to the floor of the van using 10BA bolts, originally intending to use a Kadee #36 couper, I have not fitted couplers at this stage (no Kadee #36 in stock and looking possibly at using smaller/more discrete B&B couplings (I have a fret of B&Bs somewhere)

While I used to represent the flexible part of the gangway in the traditional manner using (soft) foam rubber wrapped in crept paper, I mounted the Gangway end/cover on a piece of dense foam ground sheet which I think looks reasonably convincing. I usually represent the gangway hanger with a piece of 0.45 phosphor bronze wire with the bottom section wrapped in small dia brass wire to represent the suspension spring, but that's another day or so's work.

Once I get this 'modern' stuff out of the way I have a pair of J15s I started about 7-8 years ago to complete.

 

 

 

[Mayner]

Production Line

Big break through this week cleared tools and accumulated junk from the workbench to complete a flotilla of Tin Vans I started between 5-years ago.

The Vans were substantially complete, mainly door handles, gangway ends to add, replace some damaged/missing steps and complete paint touch ups to G617.

Two steps forward and one back, completed paint touch ups to areas where black had worn off (handrails, edge of running board, shunters and cabs steps & blended and sealed with a semi-gloss clear, then replacement set of G Class decals arrived from Des this morning. I need to check the new CIE roundels for comparision!

3111 Tin Van 1955 as introduced condition, unmodified doors. Although I fitted door handles on previous builds, I found it challenging this time around over 10 years after I initially produced the kit.

I need to adjust the axleguard assembly on the righthand side!

3123 with modified doors an early modification to these vans.

3114 a van with the majority of windows replaced with plain panels & 3111 a van in original as introduced condition. 3114 is based on a late 60s David Malone photo of the van at Sligo.

 

[Mol_PMB]

 

Looking good, John!

Loosely on this topic, here's one of the TPOs as later converted into a luggage/parcels van. Letterboxes sealed, and renumbered in the 27xx series - possibly 2766. I'm not sure if there were any other changes - possibly the rooflights plated over.

[jhb171achill]

29 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

Looking good, John!

Loosely on this topic, here's one of the TPOs as later converted into a luggage/parcels van. Letterboxes sealed, and renumbered in the 27xx series - possibly 2766. I'm not sure if there were any other changes - possibly the rooflights plated over.

I think the roof lights were inded covered over. But there were only a small number of these four-wheeled TPOs. Two, as you know, ended up in PW use, with gangways removed too. One, the last survivor of any type of tin van at all, is now at Downpatrick undergoing restoration. It will be used there as a genny / luggage / brake van. 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Mayner said:

Production Line

Big break through this week cleared tools and accumulated junk from the workbench to complete a flotilla of Tin Vans I started between 5-years ago.

The Vans were substantially complete, mainly door handles, gangway ends to add, replace some damaged/missing steps and complete paint touch ups to G617.

Two steps forward and one back, completed paint touch ups to areas where black had worn off (handrails, edge of running board, shunters and cabs steps & blended and sealed with a semi-gloss clear, then replacement set of G Class decals arrived from Des this morning. I need to check the new CIE roundels for comparision!

3111 Tin Van 1955 as introduced condition, unmodified doors. Although I fitted door handles on previous builds, I found it challenging this time around over 10 years after I initially produced the kit.

I need to adjust the axleguard assembly on the righthand side!

3123 with modified doors an early modification to these vans.

3114 a van with the majority of windows replaced with plain panels & 3111 a van in original as introduced condition. 3114 is based on a late 60s David Malone photo of the van at Sligo.

 

I am delighted to have a couple of these JM Design vans on my layout; I came a bit late to the party ande they were sold out when I was fishing about looking for them. Therefore, I bought several Silverfox ones to make up numbers. There is simply no comparison. Plus, EVERYTHING Silverfox produce in supposedly CIE green livery is utterly wrong in all respects. Grey roofs instead of black - and light grey at that - white logos and lining instead of pale green, and above all, the green colour is like British Railways loco / railcar green - nothing remotely like CIE green. I got a green van - I might as well have asked for a tartan one. So I just repainted the damn thing in silver grey and had Mr Dempsey weather it within an inch of its life.

The JM ones, though, are superb, and a vitally necessary thing for Irish modelling in the late 1950s, throughout the 60s, and into the mid-70s. I think the last time I travelled in a train with a four-wheeler tin van must have been very early 1976 on the Limerick-Ballina run, just before it finished.

[Mayner]

Finally managed to find some time this week to almost finish the Tin Vans one or more of which started over 10 years ago, though still have to replace the glazing on one van and fit door handles to several!

Silver Vans finished in Tamiya "Bare Metal Silver" aerosol, the Heating Van was assembled fro the 1st batch of kits released 10 or so years ago, the Luggage Van from the 2021 batch. Both vans are 21mm gauge, I haven't gotten round to fitting couplers to the Heating Van, I am thinking of replacing the Kadees on my 21mm stock with B&B couplers reliable delayed uncoupling and less obtrusive than Kadee.

I was inspited to finish these two vans in silver by a series of FW Shuttleworth photo of the Night Mail being made up at Sligo in 57 the consist included a pair of almost brand new Bulleid Vans, a an ex-MGW Meat Van and a ex-MGW 6w TPO dating from the 1880s, a an ex-MGW 2-4-0 shunted the train but likely to have been worked to Mullingar by an A Class.

 d

Consist of the Sligo Night Mail about 15 years later based on photos of Bulleid Vans supplied by David Malone, a UK based modeller who did some pioneering work to promote Irish Broad Gauge modelling in P4 during the 80s & 90s. David assembled a couple of my Vans with fully detailed interiors including a boiler in the heating van and parcels/luggage in the luggage sections.

Luggage Van finished from the original test build of around 10 years ago decals supplied by Des or SSM

Luggage Van in original condition.

Luggage Van with 4 window panels on both side replaced by solid panels. 

Heating & Luggage Van with a 3 window panels replaced with solid panels.

 

G617 had a spruce up after replacing worn decals before return to service. I masked the black paintwork and re-coated the white areas with a Tamiya "Pearl White" (gloss) aerosol, before finishing the loco body with a satin aerosol clear coat, unfortunately the orange on the SSM broken wheel logo does not show up too well aganst a black background!

Having almost cleared my workbench I thought this was a good time to do some urgent repair work on a Large Scale loco before, resuming work on the next unfinished 4mm loco/s project.

[Mol_PMB]

Very nice indeed! I look forward to building a couple of those vans myself.

Regarding decals, the SSM ones are a bit translucent so tend to lose their colour on a dark background. In this case they need a white layer under the orange.

Railtec are much better in that regard.

 

[Mayner]

Well the Tin Vans have finally left the Shops, the 21mm gauge ones into storage & 3 temporarily re-gauged to OO to form a Mail Train made up of PO Van, two Hooded Vans and Heating & Luggage Van (orinally assembled in OO!)

The downside is the train is too long for NorthWharf as there is only room for the loco and 2 4W vans in the Fiddle Yard/Traverser, so I guess its back to freight only and the vans into long term storage/Display Case.

The main upside of (nearly) finishing the Tin Vans is that there is now space in the Shops to complete 229 a Coey J15 one of a pair of SSM kits I bought about 15-16 years ago and started to assemble about 7-8 years ago, but often sidelined by other more urgent, profitable or interesting projects.

The main 'spotting' differences between the "Coey" J15 built in the early 1900s and earlier members of the class were (a) raised sandboxes on the leading splasher, (b) direct reversing lever (at an angle) rather than the "linkage" reverser, curving cab footsteps and slight difference in cab on some locos.

No229 is based on a photo of the loco on a Limerick bound 'overload' goods at Ballycar on the Sligo-Limerick line, a saturated loco running with a larger GSWR Type B tender which indicates that the loco may have been regularly rostered to long distance  goods work.

No229s companion No124 is based on older the (much) more common version of the Class with distinctive lever reverser and more common smaller Type A Tender.

Hopefully I will complete No229 within a shorter time frame than No124 picked up as a part built kit at Expo EM in 2001 and finally completed in 2022, though most of the work carried out since 2018 when I basically dismantked and re-built the chassis.!

[Mayner]

Finally managed to clear the bench (& return a lot of my tools to the toolbox!) to complete work on some small-scale models after completing repairs to some large-scale locos.

I decided to re-assemble 52 Class No1 after I dis-assembled the loco for the paintshops almost 4 years ago, I guess the paint (from JHBs sample) should be cured enough by now.

No1s components had been stored in a number of clear plastic containers and some parts mislaid along the way including coupling rods, cab interior and one of the tender wheelsets, so wheels and crankpin brush sets ordered from Wizard models in the UK to complete No1 and assemble a 60 Class 4-4-0 from an etch I designed 2 years ago.

Hopefully I should have enough 21mm gauge ex-GSWR locos for a Burma Rd layout once I complete my present incomplete loco projects.

I use 'live axle' pick up on my 4mm tender locos and one of the remaining major jobs on No1 is to short out the wheel sets on one side wsing there 'spiders" I had etched several years ago. Back in the day (last 40 years) I successfully used soft 0.3-0.35 dia brass wire fitted between wheel centre and axle at one end and outer end soldered to inside of wheel rim on nylon centred wheels.

No 1 will be assembled with compensated chassis leading axle floating training axle fixed and "Sharman tender" with leading and centre tender axles lightly sprung and fixed rear axle

[Tullygrainey]

I like the look of this John. I've been contemplating trying the 'live axle' approach if only to avoid p/bronze wire pickups which can be such a pain to make and maintain.

I wasn't sure how best to go about shorting out wheels. Are your spiders designed to be just an interference fit on the axle and is that enough to ensure electrical contact or do you solder them to the axle? I got some spiders not unlike yours from Scale Link but haven't tried them yet. They've got square holes and are designed for their own Markit-like wheels but I reckon the hole could be reamed out to fit a standard 1/8in axle so they could be used with Gibson wheels.

How will you mount the bogie on your 4-4-0?

Alan

[Mayner]

Hi Alan

I originally (app 30 years ago!) used to short out plastic centred wheels using soft brass wire, I used to cut a shallow notch in the wheel centre using a piercing saw with a fine blade effectively a force fit between wheel centre and axle, only soldering the wire to the innerface of the wheel rim after wheelset pressed on to the axle. The loctite retainer used to prevent wheel moving on axle does not appear to effect electrical continuity.

The holes in the 'spiders" were etched undersized and gradually opened up with a reamer to an interference/push fit on a std 1/8" axle, The spider effectively acts as a spacing washer!

If I was doing them again i'd etch the legs of the spider 1/2 thickness

The bogie is set up to a design in John Ahearn's "Miniature Locomotive Construction" basically a glorified pony-truck, haven't tried springing or side control in 4mm

 

[Tullygrainey]

Thanks John, that's very useful to know. The one and only time I tried shorting a wheel with a bit of brass wire, I cut right through the wheel boss with the piercing saw in my heavy-handed enthusiasm! 

[Mayner]

Missing parts ( 1 tender wheelset & crankpin brushes) to complete No 1 arrived surprisingly from Wizard Models in the UK on Friday so completed shorting out the (plastric centred) wheels in fitting the loco with live axle pick up.

Set of driving wheels with 'spider' soldered to wheel rim, suprlus metal and solder removed with needle file.

Set of Bogie wheels 'spider' clamped in place with Micro-Mark clamps/heatsink (similar in principal to a metal clothes peg)

No damage to plastic/nylon wheel centre after shorting out 7 wheelsets (14 soldered joints), used 145° solder and homebrewed phosphoric flux

Undated photo Great Southern Locomotives "Transports of Delight" Smugmug site https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/GREAT-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY-STEAM/i-H58MfCG

 

Intending to complete the loco as No1 with original 'racing machine" cab in GSR condition "GSR Locomotives" "the bible" notes that the loco was rebuilt with a saturated boiler with a flush roundtopped firebox in 1930 and later rebuilt (date unknown) with a saturated boiler with a raised round topped boiler. The Smugmug photo may be of the loco in its second rebuilt state (mid-late 30s)with a 2 ringed boiler as the Class were orignally built with a 3 ring boiler with the dome centred on the boiler.

Mock up of the that 1930s pose! Some adjustment required to the fitting of the loco and tender body on the chassis. Tender srings and numberplates are separately applied, safety valve casting came adrift during fitting, cab detail, coupling rods to be located or assembled, loco/tender to be balanced before trial running and painting finals.

 

[Colonel]

A handsome engine well on the way to becoming a lovely model.

[Mayner]

I ran a 3D test print of the frame of a CIE 8' Commonwealth bogie to check clearances for 21mm gauge and set up for printing.

Cured print on temporary supports, the model is orientated at 45º to the build plate in accordance with the resin manufacturers recommendations. Test model was printed with a Monocure resin (Australian supplier) who produce a high strength tensile resin which I found suitable for printing detail parts and rolling stock.

One of the main objectives of the test was to ensure that supports were adequate to prevent sagging/distortion during printing.

Test bogie with 21mm wheelsets. I need to fine tune the bearing holes and bogie detailing. The bogies are to upgrade my 3 Worsley Works CIE coaches a Park Royal and two Laminates assembled almost 20 years ago!

Other almost break through was finding No 1s original coupling rods, crankpin bushes and nuts stored 'safely' 3-4 years ago when I dismantled the loco for painting, though I still haven't found the replacement rods, bushes and nuts I stored safely 3-4 weeks ago!  I still have to find No 1 s number plates, though I have some un-numbered J15 plates and Slaters brass numerals somewhere

The "replacement rods" are from a spare chassis fret which may be used to convert No98 to 21mm gauge

[Mayner]

Balancing a 4-4-0 getting a step nearer to getting No 1 running.

I decided to cast weights in Cerrobend or woodsmetal rather than use sheet lead/tyre weights as I had some of the metal in stock after assembling several 2-4-0s & 4-4-0s several years ago. The tender weight had been cast in a rubber mold 5-6 years ago, the loco weights cast in a 3D resin printed mold as a (not very successful) experiment. The cylindrical mold intended to fit in the loco boiler barrel. the second rectangular weight profiled to fit under the motor. The molds were printed in a 'rapid resin' and both split horizontally as I filled the mold with molten (approx 70C) metal, but worked ok when I filled the mold in layers allow to partially solidify between layers. Perhaps I'll try a heat resistant (150C) resin when I get round to assembling my 60Class.

Tender weight is supported on a piece of n/s soldered to a frame spacer, bolt is part of the live axle power pick up system 

Leading and centre axles are lightly sprung, I had to move the outer brake pull-rods out slightly to avoid shorting on the wheelsets. I still haven't decided on couplings for this loco, but I have a sheet of B&B couplings which I found effective in EM stashed away somewhere

I printed the cylinderical weight undersized to fit in the boiler (I probabably use a silicone mastic), on previous locos I found it effective to literally pour the cerrobend into the boiler before I painted the loco!

Everything seems to fit ok, next job is to fabricate the drawbar from a piece of copper clad sleeper (with the copper removed) and connect the motor to the loco & tender frames on the so called "American pick up system. My kit and scratch built Irish steam locos are strictly DC only!\

Real coal load to be glued to an offcut of brass sheet. Still have to fit firebox back head, cab floor and fall plate (non-conductive!)

[Colonel]

Great to follow the progress John. Lovely models of lovely engines.

[Mayner]

Something of a breakthrough No11 actually No1 substantially completed.

The inspiration was a late 20s/early 30s photo of No 1 on the Transport of Delights website, which looks suspiciously like the lads were preparing for a high-speed run with thier racing machine.

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/GREAT-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY-STEAM/i-H58MfCG/A

Although I had a set of number plates etched several years ago, I have been unable to locate them and the loco is currently disguised as no11. Got to adjust the ride height/trim at the front end, but otherwise looking the part.

The loco was assembled from the original test etch based on the 'official' GSW/GSR diagram with the origonal "3 ring" boiler with the dome placed centrally, rather than the later 2 ring boiler with offset dome in the photo.

Head on view with correct (HMRS) transfer No, 3 link coupler to be replaced with screw, Markits vac pipe replaced with cast type fitted to No 93 which looks a lot neater.

Tender now has a load of real Waikato coal collected about 15 years ago from the McDonald Mine Rd, Rotowaro "lake of glowing embers".  Although the McDonald and other small mines in the area closed, two trainloads of Waikato coal are dispatched daily from the Rotowaro railhead to the Glenbrook Steel mill approx 85km distant.

Coal was glued with pva office glue to a brass plate that sits on top of the tender ballast weight.

 

Set up is based on a 1939 photo with 58 on a train at Mountmellick, I substituted a grain wagon for an ex GSW covered wagon. The wagons are unfitted (handbrake only, no vacuum pipe) so the question is whether mixed trains of the branch sometimes ran with the automatic brake on the coaches disconnected, or the loco is about to shunt the wagons to the year, having uncoupled from the train and turned after arrival. At one stage there were exemptions from the automatic braking regulations on short branches and Conniberry Junction-Mountmellick was fairly flat and hopefully the train Guard was awake.

No1/No11 with a more 'regular' consist, I have another 4 GSW square wheelers in stock to assemble

The open with wheels is based on a Railway Publishing Co photo of an almost new open with at Inchacore with a wheel load which inspired me in 2021  to produce a 3D model of this type of wagon.

Cab backhead from original kit, tender floor spare from a 650 Class kit. Made a mess of painting the backhead, needs to be stripped down and re-painted.

Nitty gritty stuff

Motor sits in a bed of silicone on cast ballast weight glued to chassis. Brass wire pick up from loco chassis soldered to upper motor terminal, black insulated lead to tender chassis. Loco brake gear removed for paint touch at this stage.

Coupling rods are from original test build to be replaced when I find replacement set! Slight binding while running in one direction at this stage, 2 of the crankpin bushes appear too short for comfort and may be contributing to the binding.

Tender pick up lead, I was lucky to find a lead complete with eye among my stock of bits and bobs.

Although still requiring some minor work completing No11/1 to this stage is something of a milestone, clearing space on the workbench to resume work on 229 with some added motivation to actually start work on the planned 21mm gauge layout.

[Tullygrainey]

Lovely, lovely stuff. Thanks for the nitty gritty photos John. Really useful.