Toilets on Park Royal stock

[Dargan]

My first posting here, so Hi to everyone.

 

I'm building a Worsley works Park Royal coach and I can't seem to find a plan view. I need to know the position of the toilets (1 each end ? both on the same side ?) and also when did the circular window (which I understand ISN'T the toilet) start to get plated over ?

 

Thanks

 

Dargan

[Broithe]

What a fantastic first post - asking where the toilets are!

 

And a great name, too.

 

Somebody will be along shortly with the necessary recall, I'm sure.

[BosKonay]

Welcome to the site Dargan - cá bhfuil an leithreas!

[burnthebox]

Hi Dargan, & welcome onboard, lot's going on hare,& as Broithe has already said, someone will be along with the / all the answers for you

[jhb171achill]

I don't remember the circular windows after maybe 1980. I think it was gradual. Originally there were two internal layouts - suburbans (some anyway) had no toilets, but longitudinal seats inside the end vestibules. Certainly in my time of most travelling in them, which was mid-70s on, the inside walls were painted mid brown with cream or white ceilings, and the upholstery was the then-standard very dark grey (almost black) with a blue fleck through it.

[BSGSV]

I would agree with JHB that the circular windows seemed to disappear about 1980.

The fifty Park Royals comprised 40 "suburban" variant (with no toilets) and 10 "main line" variant (which had a toilet either end). Suburban were 1379 to 1418, main line 1419 to 1428.

The attached block (from the Autumn 1954 IRRS Journal, but attributed to "Modern Transport" which had a feature on the Park Royals in their 31 October 1953 edition), shows the variations at the vestibule ends between the suburban and main line versions. You can ignore the incorrect bogies as all Park Royals came out on Commonwealths.

Six of the main line ones got converted to "Snack Cars" in 1968 (toilet and vestibule one end given over to small counter). The survivors were reconverted back or to Brake Standards in 1984 (brake valve in the former counter area).

Edited November 27, 2014 by BSGSV

[jhb171achill]

Excellent info!

 

On cold days, condensation would form on the inner lower walls, as these were "single skin" (hence, (a) the heating needed to be working, and (b) you could fit 3 + 2 seating comfortably.

 

In RPSI times, tables were fitted in preserved ones. In traffic, they never had tables between seats; in those days it was by no means the norm, as it is now, for even main line stock to all have tables. In this respect, Cravens were well ahead of their time.

[Dargan]

Many thanks BSGSV. Just what I was looking for to enable me to build an accurate model. Now the next question, frosted or white glass for the toilet windows ??

From the DVD's I've managed to obtain and looking at photo's I think some sort of frosted glass was the norm.

Anyon

[jhb171achill]

Frosted. Smooth surface both sides, frosty type stuff on the inside.

 

Dargan, if you can get to Downpatrick, PM me in advance and I'll arrange for you to see 1944 (the one the DCDR owns), up close and personal.

[StevieB]

Bearing in mind that so few of the Park Royals had toilets when first in traffic, a lot of their turns later in life were on long distance services with few stops. Seems like you would have to cross your legs rather hard on occasions 'cos you couldn't rely on neighbouring carriages having toilets!

 

Stephen

[Dargan]

Hi Folks,

Just thought I'd log in and update the progress on my Park Royal coach. I've tack soldered the ends and flat sided sections to get the correct width. Now I've started making the pattern for the roof moulding. I do quite a bit of resin casting in my spare time and have used this method before on other projects. Basically to get the tight corner radii I used some 9mm diameter hardwood buried half way with balsa sheet. I'll next form the shallow curve from some thin aluminium and glue it all together. I've copied the end profile on a piece of plasticard as you can see in the photo. . . .

[Kirley]

Following this thread with interest, please keep the pictures coming.

[Kirley]

The above information on the Park Royals above is very helpful but could I have some further clarification on these delightful coaches please.

 

Am I right is saying that looking from the outside the only way you can tell a Suburban coach is the numbers (1379 to 1418) and the lack of a 'frosted' (Toilet) window beside left hand door?

 

 

Also that both the Suburban and Mainline versions had the circular window plated over in the 80's and the Mainline version had the toilet window beside the door reduced in size?

 

[BSGSV]

Bear in mind that eight vehicles (drawn from Ambulance, Snack car and "ordinary" carriages) were converted to brake standards in the 1980's, replacing CIE built stock being withdrawn at the time. These were numbered in the 194x series and one of the photos you are asking about shows one. These had a small guard's compartment at one vestible end, basically just containing a brake valve, while a toilet was re/fitted at the other end. The refit seems to have been done (if the one at Downpatrick is representative) without leaving a gap between toilet compartment and passenger area bulkhead, and what look suspiciously like CIE stock windows added (panels stripped from scrap carriages?) as per the above photo.