Mk3 Donors

[StevieB]

This question has probably been asked before but which mk3's are the best for the Irish version, Jouef, Lima or Hornby?

 

Stephen

[burnthebox]

Hi StevieB, for what it's worth have a look at some of the questions about this very issue, on an earlier tread, to do this the best way I know is to put your question " MK 3 DONORS "into the box in the top right hand corner & you should get some, if not all answers which may help, I'll be watching with interest,

Edited September 6, 2015 by burnthebox

[DiveController]

As luck would have it I have exactly the same question. Looking to respray some Mark IIIs into supertrain livery.

 

I do remember some discussion about this on the site but I may have been as an aside on another thread. I also seem to recall that on Wrenneires thread he refers to the Mark IIIs or at least the restaurant coach being a respray of a BR version. That being the case there may be some other donors out there for respray.

 

Of course, that may not answer the question of which one actually proves the most prototypical donor for respray. Waiting on my ST respray of MarkII rake from one of the vendors on the site here so hoping they'll turn out well. If so, definitely moving forward with trying to find some donors to respray a ST MkIII rake.

There remains the problem of a MK III EGV, of course.

Edited September 6, 2015 by DiveController

[Glenderg]

Jouef are closest to the right size, but are rare. Couplings and corridor connections are rough enough. Lima are great to work on. Hornbys windows may crack when being removed.

 

Rails of Sheffield have lots of bulk buy options on Lima, it's where I'd go.

[Weshty]

Rails of Sheffield have lots of bulk buy options on Lima, it's where I'd go.

 

To borrow Michael Cain's adage, "Not a lot of people know that..." , very useful info.

[WRENNEIRE]

Having trouble with my email Kev

Mk3's that I have at the moment

7115

7411 x 2

These are from the 149801 set

7141

7135

These are from the 149801-2 set

2 x unnumbered coaches from the River Tolka set

[Glenderg]

I meant to add that the Jouef coaches are perfectly sized for the Cu Na Mara coaches, they are a scale 4mm longer than the lima's and take the 9 windows arrangement better than the 8 windows of the standard lima coach.

 

Avoid the brake end (LIMA L205162w), and their restaurant coaches, as these have different roof vent arrangements to the Irish prototype.

 

Also, some of the lima coaches may come without buffers (for some odd reason) and just have two nipples of plastic where they should go. A pack of these is a handy thing to have in the bashin' box - http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2934.php

Vac pipes and other goodies to tart up the tail ends can also be sourced from Dart.

 

R

[Warbonnet]

Also, some of the lima coaches may come without buffers (for some odd reason) and just have two nipples of plastic where they should go. A pack of these is a handy thing to have in the bashin' box - http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2934.php

Vac pipes and other goodies to tart up the tail ends can also be sourced from Dart.

 

R

 

To solve the mystery this is because HSTs use buckeye couplers in real life so the Mark IIIs that run with HSTs don't have buffers. Sorry to be the bore of the week!

[DiveController]

Richie, I didn't understand your comment about the nine windows. I thought the Mark IIIs had eight windows, +2 halves equals nine?

What about the Hornby's as donors? When I looked at my own Mark threes I recalled that they don't have flush glazing. Would also be a lot easier to pick up Hornbys as I think they're still on sale in various liveries. Not sure whether the Hornby's or Limas are more prototypically correct bodywise, though.

[Dhu Varren]

The BR and IE Mk3 coaches were all built on the 8 window format plus two small windows just inboard of the doors, including the catering vehicles. The Cu Na Mara coaches are only distant cousins of the Mk3, and have a different profile with nine windows plus two. To convert any of the RTR Mk3 coaches, Lima, Hornby or Jouef to Cu Na Mara stock would require major surgery to fit nine windows into where eight windows already exist.

A possible easier, cheaper option might be to use the original short Hornby Mk3 as a donor, and do a 'cut and shut'. These old Mk3s are readily available cheaply on the secondhand market, but there are two versions available. The original short version introduced in 1977 had only seven windows, which are spaced much the same as the Lima, Hornby and Jouef scale length Mk3s, so a 'cut and shut' using this version would only give an eight window coach. However, in 1984 Hornby revised the short Mk3 coach giving it eight windows in the same short length as the previous version. It was not until 1999 that Hornby introduced the current, scale length Mk3 coach. The theory is, and I have not got any short eight windowed Mk3s to confirm this, that a 'cut and shut' using the short eight windowed Mk3 would give a nine windowed coach, which could then be passed off as a Cu Na Mara vehicle.

[Warbonnet]

The BR and IE Mk3 coaches were all built on the 8 window format plus two small windows just inboard of the doors, including the catering vehicles. The Cu Na Mara coaches are only distant cousins of the Mk3, and have a different profile with nine windows plus two. To convert any of the RTR Mk3 coaches, Lima, Hornby or Jouef to Cu Na Mara stock would require major surgery to fit nine windows into where eight windows already exist.

A possible easier, cheaper option might be to use the original short Hornby Mk3 as a donor, and do a 'cut and shut'. These old Mk3s are readily available cheaply on the secondhand market, but there are two versions available. The original short version introduced in 1977 had only seven windows, which are spaced much the same as the Lima, Hornby and Jouef scale length Mk3s, so a 'cut and shut' using this version would only give an eight window coach. However, in 1984 Hornby revised the short Mk3 coach giving it eight windows in the same short length as the previous version. It was not until 1999 that Hornby introduced the current, scale length Mk3 coach. The theory is, and I have not got any short eight windowed Mk3s to confirm this, that a 'cut and shut' using the short eight windowed Mk3 would give a nine windowed coach, which could then be passed off as a Cu Na Mara vehicle.

 

Best option for the Cu Na Mara would be Jouef Mark IIIs and southern pride overlays http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/

[Glenderg]

Richie, I didn't understand your comment about the nine windows. I thought the Mark IIIs had eight windows, +2 halves equals nine?

 

The MKIIIa's had 9 windows, taller and shorter than the MKIII SO's 8 windows.

 

What about the Hornby's as donors? When I looked at my own Mark threes I recalled that they don't have flush glazing. Would also be a lot easier to pick up Hornbys as I think they're still on sale in various liveries. Not sure whether the Hornby's or Limas are more prototypically correct bodywise, though.

 

The only benefit of having Hornby's over Lima's IMHO is that it's a one piece mould. It is practically identical in all respects to the Lima. As for prototypically correct, neither of them are. The Lima's all have square droplight apertures in the corners, all ours were rounded. The doors themselves are smooth on IR, Lima's have the BR dent, and the hydraulic door arm is missing. Minor issues that no-one is going to get upset by..(I hope!) And as for flush glazing, neither of them really have that feature, though Hornby's is closer to flush.

 

The theory is, and I have not got any short eight windowed Mk3s to confirm this, that a 'cut and shut' using the short eight windowed Mk3 would give a nine windowed coach, which could then be passed off as a Cu Na Mara vehicle.

 

Mad idea Dhu! but I like your thought process. The unfortunate thing is that you'd be left with a seam across the joint on the roof, which would be pretty tricky to get right. The overlay, as WB says, is what I was thinking.

 

This is just a quick comparison of the two side overlays to see the difference in pattern. (and the distance between the white stripes was different - only noticeable with MKIIIa connected to the EGV.

 

The wanderer has some nice shots of the MKIIIa's, you'll have to use their running numbers to search - 6201 + etc. and 6401 for the restaurant.