Rank Wagon Colour?

[Kirley]

There was a mention in the Ballybeg Thread some months ago about the Rank Wagons. A picture showing what I believe to be an Alphagraphix kit of this wagon is in Red. Is this colour correct bearing JB’s many warning on the limited colouring on Irish good vehicles?

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19183&d=1433435414

[Dunluce Castle]

I reckon Leslie would have some info regarding that particular wagon as he was looking at producing it some time ago. Could be wrong tho.

[jhb171achill]

The only one I ever saw was plain standard grey, naturally chassis / drawgear included, with white lettering. Like Taras, it's possible they were something else when new, but I can't be certain. I will investigate and report back as I should be able to find out original details.

[Kirley]

Thanks, any information would be very helpful.

[dave182]

Hi Kirley. This recent thread on http://www.ilovelimerick.ie shows a Ranks truck in company livery, so I would assume that the wagons were the same colour red?! Might be of use to you!

http://www.ilovelimerick.ie/2015/ranks-a-limerick-industry/

(And no Glenderg, I didn't hit the 'subscribe and like' button on ilovelimerick.ie!)

[waffles]

Started life as delivers in red repainted grey in latter year

[jhb171achill]

Interesting, waffles! Thanks.

 

For modelling accuracy purposes, do you know (a) if initially the chassis was red as one might expect, or black? (B) when they were repainted standard all over grey ?

[Glenderg]

(And no Glenderg, I didn't hit the 'subscribe and like' button on ilovelimerick.ie!)

 

You were on Ilovelimerick.ie, that's enough for me

 

 

[jhb171achill]

An extremely reliable opinion I consulted tonight casts great doubt on them ever being anything but grey. I suspect that if any were ever red, it didn't last long. In those days, separate liveries eg the Asahi, Tara or Ammonia were unusual and private owner / reserved operator stuff generally carried the standard livery, ie grey.

 

The photos show above both suggest grey, though with the top one it's hard to tell. While the chassis on it looks darker, maybe black, so does the wagon hogs to the left - and it would certainly be grey....the picture exposure is the wild card there.

[Kirley]

Thanks to everyone who contributed. So the Jury is out on whether it was Red originally but towards the end of it's working life Grey would be the colour to go for.

[jhb171achill]

Looks like it, Kirley! If I manage to dig up anything else I'll post it here.

[Mayner]

Just to confuse things further some of the GSR built grain hoppers were company wagons and appeared iin GSR ad later CIE livery. The Ranks wagons were private owner and were lettered Ranks Ireland Limited

 

I have seen a colour photo of one of these wagons in red oxide with broken wheel logo on the scrap line at Mullingar in the late70s

 

Ranks used these wagons between the elevators at Alexandra Road, Limerick Careys Road and Clara Mill, the wagons also appeared to run in CIE days to grain elevators in Ardee.

[Kirley]

I see in an old NIL an advert for Alphagraphics card kits:

CC70 Ranks grain hopper wagon (red livery) £2

CC71 Ranks grain hopper wagon (grey livery) £2

[jhb171achill]

Absolutely right, Mayner, you've reminded me of a couple of other places I saw them.

 

I wasn't aware that any survived to get the standard CIE brown (red-oxide).

 

I suppose, for historical accuracy, we need to be aware that we now have proof of them in both CIE liveries. Thus far, the red.... we all know of examples of where incorrectly applied liveries, or incorrect recollections, fuel theories that something was a certain colour, when it wasn't. It's so easy for a modeller who hasn't had the requisite number of birthdays, aches and pains, to assume that if the UFTM, RPSI or DCDR paint something tartan, then it must have been tartan. Not so, as many examples in all three can show us. So - one wonders where Alphagrafix got their information from? Was it reliable information, and if so, did their printing process produce it correctly?

 

Their SLNCR coach, for example, is red. It should be deep maroon, although that one's understandable as the very few coaches on this line that saw a paintbrush in the "colour" era (Nos 4 & 11 spring to mind), faded to a weathered nondescript browny red colour in the Leitrim wind and rain quite quickly.

 

Red would be colourful on a layout in world of almost all grey. It MIGHT be accurate. However, if realism is the preference, we at least know grey is accurate. And post-1970 or so, brown with broken wheel too.

 

Incidentally, for all wagons, the brown started appearing about 1970. Prior to that all grey. By the time loose coupled stock was done away with in the mid 70s, about 60% of stock was brown! the rest grey still! the odd one still sporting a "flying snail" stencil.

[Old Blarney]

For a number of years there were Rank Wagons stored on the sidings outside Wicklow Station. If my memory serves me correctly my first sighting of these would have been around 1977/8. I believe they were painted red, much faded, and were lettered as per the photographs shown in earlier postings. At that time I was travelling around the railway system on Locomotives, these were the days when it was possible to arrange for foot-plate passes from both CIE and NIR. Those were the days?

[jhb171achill]

There we have it. They were red prior to being grey! Mystery solved.

 

(Chassis red, grey or black, OB, can you recall?)

[Old Blarney]

There we have it. They were red prior to being grey! Mystery solved.

 

(Chassis red, grey or black, OB, can you recall?)

 

I'm sorry to report I cannot be definite in my answer, however, I believe my memory tells me the wagons were one colour, red (much faded) with white lettering. I do remember them being stored there for a number of years.

 

Dislike the use of the word "Think". Many years ago whilst serving an apprenticeship, I was asked by my Chairman, to count certain items whilst we prepared our "Stock-Take". Returning to his office, I was asked how many items of XXx do we hold? I replied "I think we have xxxx. His reply. "Laddie, I'm the person in this business who THINKS. You either know the answer to my question, or you do not know the answer. THINK is not an answer. Now go and count those items, return to my office with the correct answer. We have XXX in stock of-------."

 

So I dare not say, I think the colours were X or Y. I cannot remember them other than that faded red.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Old Blarney

[jhb171achill]

You're 100% right, OB. It is "think" that had led to numerous careless, unforgiveable errors in museums and preservation.

 

The one certainty is that on the rare occasions that Irish wagons were in a unique livery, the chassis usually was too - not always, but generally. Thus, if I was modelling these things I'd go for red chassis, heavily weathered with brownish brake block dust. This could be corrected if appropriate in the future.

[Kirley]

Now that's that more or less settled, all I want to know now is how many wagons existed, on photos I only see 2 numbers 4 & 8?

[Old Blarney]

Regarding the number of wagons owned by Rank, is there any record of their number/s in the files of the IRRS? I believe "Private Owner Wagons" were maintained by the railway companies! I can have this verified,if you wish me to do so?

[Kirley]

Regarding the number of wagons owned by Rank, is there any record of their number/s in the files of the IRRS? I believe "Private Owner Wagons" were maintained by the railway companies! I can have this verified,if you wish me to do so?

 

Yes please David

[jhb171achill]

Private owner wagons were indeed looked after by the railway companies here. Which I suppose is why many ended up in the standard CIE colours of the day.

[Mayner]

Private owner wagons were indeed looked after by the railway companies here. Which I suppose is why many ended up in the standard CIE colours of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ranks & CIE grain wagons Sligo late 60s © David Malone

 

David recalls that the Ranks wagon was in grey with white lettering.

 

At this stage the wagons may have been in use for grain traffic from Ferns to the Mill at Ballysodare. This probably explains why the redundant wagons were stored at Wicklow Junction when CIE gave up on wagon load operation.

[Kirley]

Thanks John, confirmation that these wagons were grey in the late 60's

[jhb171achill]

That's how I recall them, with smaller than normal "snail" and grey. So there are three possible varieties: red with "Ranks" name, all-grey with name, and all-grey with snail.