Claremorris Goods shed

[Junctionmad]

Hi oh knowledgable ones..

 

 

Two questions, anyone know when these doors were sealed up ?, IN all the historical pictures I have , I havent one of this side of the goods shed!

 

Also how did unloading through these doors work, they dont seem to be spaced in any meaningful way, was each wagon seperately positioned beside each door ? , any similar photos from other locations that explains it ?

 

Also I presume the inside originally had a raised floor and hence a form of loading bay at the door

 

Heres the goods platform end , note clearly the larger door ope,, but there is no corresponding door to the right of that , as is seemed to suggest in the photo below

 

 

heres the inside

 

 

 

 

Interesting the evidence of the door to the left of the fireplace, has absolutely no evidence on the outer wall. whereas the window is clearly there, I wonder how that was done ???,

 

 

note the " rails " above the doors and to the side wall , ??? amy ideas

 

Note the vertical rails or steel embedded in the end wall to the left of the door, anyone any ideas ( another door ????, and there is a form of lintel above these, yet there is again NO evidence in the external stone work ( see photo 2 above )

 

 

There was clear evidence of a internal office, with a fireplace, but I suspect that was before the late fifties remodelling of the station , as there is evidence that the external office was increased in size ( edit: actually post 1964 and pre 1972)

 

There is also evidence that the door onto the outside goods platform was much larger which would make sense

 

I was also wondering if the internal platform extended all the way across the internal shed, and would they have been a inset loading bay at the main door

 

It always amused me as to where the door was position as the siding effectively blocked the entrance of the shed, I wonder was the large door and canopy added in the fifties rework as the concrete surrounds on it look much later then the original shed construction , perhaps the only door was the original in the other wall onto the goods platform

 

The internals are full of wall lintels , showing the history of the shed, I even suspect it was re-roofed as they is evidence that the areas under the gutters was infilled ( and the roof is corrugated , since the reconstruction I below, unlikely to be original )

 

all ideas and references to other sheds welcome

 

claremorris is a difficult station to pin down as it : suffered" almost continuous modifications from the 50s onwards . but Ill take some modellers license, in building the structures and try and represent them in working order irrespective of period

 

 

Heres a close up of the goods shed pre-1950s mods, the chimney for the internal office is clear as is the larger door in the gable and the roof is clearly different , its hard to determine whats to the right of the door ( corresponding to the lintels inside) note that there is a form of small canopy but its not over the door underneath and its hard to determine what is in the photo there ( is that a crane ?)

copyright O'Dea collection

 

 

thanks for any help

dave

 

All photos with permission of IE and or private owners

Edited December 2, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

Just an update , I know now that the goods shed was re-roofed post 1964, and with the loss of the chimney , this was added a couple of years later to the outside goods office attached to the goods shed, which itself had been added before the roof was changed

 

I think the roof was changed ( why I dont know) and then later in the seventies to enable the goods shed to be used as a keg store, and I think , the main door and valance was added to facilitate mechanical handling of the kegs, ( and presumably ) the other doors were blocked up as a security issue. I havent got a good picture of the north end of the shed, but there is evidence of a different form of valance there in the 60-70 period.

 

all very interesting

[Junctionmad]

Anyone have any ideas re this ?

[Horsetan]

Claremorris has so much potential as a layout, yet finding complete information for a particular time period is indeed difficult to find.

[Junctionmad]

Claremorris has so much potential as a layout, yet finding complete information for a particular time period is indeed difficult to find.

 

Actually with the exception of a few items like I mention , I can chart the evolution of the station from 1950 to 2000, including signal changes , track changes. Building mods ( even the watertower was modified ! )

 

It's one of the better documented stations n the system

 

It's detail now, like the roof of the men's loo , the station main doors in the 70s etc that I'm down to

 

And the goods shed of course

 

I find it fascinating , but it's a crying shame we have so little records pre 50s of railways in Ireland , especially nfrastructure

 

Damm locomotives get in the way all the time

 

I see this to this day , endless photos of 141s , usually from a distance with little detsil. Yet no record of disappearing buildings, signals , modifications to structures etc. It's a real loss.

[Horsetan]

It was far more interesting before the track was rationalised and resignalled for CTC

[jhb171achill]

It was indeed, Horsetan, see the likes of Jimmy O'Dea's photos in the fifties....

 

I often imagine what the likes of Monaghan, Clones or Enniskillen - or Albert Quay - would look like now had they survived. One look at present day Mallow, Athenry or worst of all Portadown can answer that!

[Glenderg]

There was no door to the right hand side of the main facade. The reason you see a lintel behind is that it was for supporting something. The black and white photos tells me it is a small roof canopy, my guess being that externally there was some type of big ass crane, the weights etc. being internal. Oh lookeee here.

 

 

 

 

The roof was originally roofed in Bangor Blue slates, but when a timber roof starts to fail, which it must have, they would have simply taken the slates off, sold them, and re roofed in sheet corrugated metal. No need to fix the sagging roof timbers then, make a few bob on the slates, it probably paid for the sheet material. An accountants type of "building management and conservation"

 

The canopy is of 1970's or even 80's vintage. That profile of sheet metal for the fascia is relatively modern. They did an identical gunthering at Tuam. But here's the thing, there was a canopy there already. See the structure on the left hand side? Now also look at the stonework, not coursed random rubble - mighty hard to tie anything in later, that's why you can make out the infill where there was an opening onto the platform with the cattle stop. And if I were a betting man, I'd say the door was straight across from the one on the road side, and of identical size.

 

 

As for the door openings on the road side trucks would have reversed up to them and parked perpendicular. Now at the turn of the century OS maps there is only a bit of a canopy to that side, which suggests there was only one large door, and possibly a small one. I've seen this before on big ass goods sheds. Clearly they extended the canopy as traffic increased, they opened up the pedestrian door, and then cut another one down the far end. Hence the staggered nature of their spacing. The doors would have been the sliding door type with big lumps of steel to carry the pully mechanism.

 

There also was a canopy on the platform side too - see the remnants of missing joists and exposed wallplate? How big or otherwise is unknown, but if you check the likes of the Lawrence Collection, it might have a photo of it.

 

Have a look through here - a mixed bad of UK and Irish wonderment -

 

 

 

And don't forget the depot managers window either, now blocked up. All the infill blockwork would have been done at the same time as the steel canopy was put it.

 

And the extension at the end of the shed is not original, but built at the same time as the signal box, but you already knew that

 

The floor would have been a timber suspended floor, removed to take the weight of kegs etc. made up of big lumps of old railway sleepers. Removed in the 70's too I'd imagine.

 

and

 

Can't remember what else was asked, but I hope the above is of use. R

[Horsetan]

It was indeed, Horsetan, see the likes of Jimmy O'Dea's photos in the fifties....

 

Seen those. There are probably enough photos to create a jigsaw of the track layout, and I'm sure I have a signalling diagram somewhere, albeit after the Ballinrobe branch was closed.

 

I often imagine what the likes of Monaghan, Clones or Enniskillen - or Albert Quay - would look like now had they survived. One look at present day Mallow, Athenry or worst of all Portadown can answer that!

 

...or Mullingar.

[Mayner]

Claremorris goods shed was converted to a bagged cement store with a canopy and forklift access through the gable end in a similar manner to Tuam and Gort as part of the Rail Plan 80.

 

The yard layout and shed evolved with increasing goods traffic http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,533827,775117,12,9

 

Claremorris yard is interesting in that CIE modernised freight handling in the yard in the 70s with little or no track alteration, a gantry for container traffic was installed in the late 60s and ESSO oil traffic transferred from “The Southern Siding” to the yard in the late 70s.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Mayner

[Southern Yard]

To help this thread here's the station cabin board, the track work reflects the 1950s layout after yard remodelling in the 40s.

[Junctionmad]

Glenderg

 

thanks

 

This bit confuses me

 

As for the door openings on the road side trucks would have reversed up to them and parked perpendicular. Now at the turn of the century OS maps there is only a bit of a canopy to that side, which suggests there was only one large door, and possibly a small one. I've seen this before on big ass goods sheds. Clearly they extended the canopy as traffic increased, they opened up the pedestrian door, and then cut another one down the far end. Hence the staggered nature of their spacing. The doors would have been the sliding door type with big lumps of steel to carry the pully mechanism.

 

There also was a canopy on the platform side too - see the remnants of missing joists and exposed wallplate? How big or otherwise is unknown, but if you check the likes of the Lawrence Collection, it might have a photo of it

 

I suspect the road side door was bigger then the platform door.

 

I was interested in the double doors for the goods wagons, how dod that work, since the spacing is wrong and I wondered when the wagon access doors where blocked up

 

 

And don't forget the depot managers window either, now blocked up. All the infill blockwork would have been done at the same time as the steel canopy was put it.

 

No , That window was open till well into 2000+, I have later pics. I suspect it was only closed in the recent track rationalisation when the goods shed was leased to a private company and the window was closed for security

 

 

The steel canopy is there from early 80s at least ,

[Junctionmad]

ref the signalling diagram, That was a " reconstruction " of the pre CTC installation. and is the current one in the cabin if you visit today. The O'dea collection shows the diagram from the 60s when the burma road was in operation and in my view is a better starting place then the one shown above ( which I also photographed), unfortunately for the station anniversary the signal cabin was renovated by ex signal men, and in that regards is not a correct representation ( the signal levers etc are a bit wrong ) signals were also somewhat renumbered as advanced starters were added and some levers re-tasked

 

I have loads of claremorris photos if anyone is interested

 

The track plan was essentially unchanged since the 40s and had already been changed from the OSI well before the old engine shed was demolished and the extra platform installed

 

 

IM trying to model it in 1975-78, right at the changeover period, this is what Im trying to establish as the claremorris good shed North door arrangement

Edited December 15, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

Claremorris goods shed was converted to a bagged cement store with a canopy and forklift access through the gable end in a similar manner to Tuam and Gort as part of the Rail Plan 80.

 

The yard layout and shed evolved with increasing goods traffic http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,533827,775117,12,9

 

Claremorris yard is interesting in that CIE modernised freight handling in the yard in the 70s with little or no track alteration, a gantry for container traffic was installed in the late 60s and ESSO oil traffic transferred from “The Southern Siding” to the yard in the late 70s.

 

agreed, but I dont think oil handling was ever handled on the other side, most of the southern side was used by the ballinrobe service and engine run round etc . The ESSO depot itself only appeared in the late 60s , certainly 1950s show no oil silos.

 

late 60s seems early for container crane.? didn't all these get bought in the freight modernisation plan of the 70s

 

according to station staff, the goods shed was used a keg store rather then bagged cement , but that could have been later, there is a photo on the station of kegs being forlklifted into it around the 80s

[Weshty]

Jayz lads, but that is some tidy bit of architectural detective work. Great reading in that.

 

Replacing slated roof with corrugated for the sake of saving a few shekels on support and maintenance??? Now THAT is cheap and nasty.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Weshty

[Horsetan]

ref the signalling diagram, That was a " reconstruction " of the pre CTC installation. and is the current one in the cabin if you visit today. The O'dea collection shows the diagram from the 60s when the burma road was in operation and in my view is a better starting place then the one shown above ( which I also photographed), unfortunately for the station anniversary the signal cabin was renovated by ex signal men, and in that regards is not a correct representation ( the signal levers etc are a bit wrong ) signals were also somewhat renumbered as advanced starters were added and some levers re-tasked ....

 

There's a lot of TippEx all over the left of the diagram!

 

If I had the space to model Claremorris, I'd be wanting to show the track layout and signalling at its peak, i.e. the '60s rather than the rationalised scheme that exists today.

 

....Replacing slated roof with corrugated for the sake of saving a few shekels on support and maintenance??? Now THAT is cheap and nasty.

 

Thing is, that was a bit more widespread. The Donegal did something similar when replacing the canvas roofs on some of its wagons with corrugated sheet.

[Junctionmad]

Horsetan

 

I begin building the Claremorris -balkinrobe model railway in the new year. Compacted into 16 x 10

 

It's a complete replica of the 1970s track with the buildings around the same time. Full signalling as per 1975

 

The reason for my question re the goods shed is to determine if the big end road door and side wagon doors would have bee in place in 1975. I still haven't answered this. If not I'll make a gues at it. Or model it in post 1975 state.

 

If I had more early pictures of model it before the loco shed was removed but I've yet to see more then a single badly positioned pic of that shed

 

I will operate the balkinrobe branch as if it were still in operation into early 80s. So aec railcar C class and single coach or even G class. Aka loughrea branch

 

See my other posts re layout diagram

[Garfield]

Horsetan

 

I begin building the Claremorris -balkinrobe model railway in the new year. Compacted into 16 x 10

 

It's a complete replica of the 1970s track with the buildings around the same time. Full signalling as per 1975

 

The reason for my question re the goods shed is to determine if the big end road door and side wagon doors would have bee in place in 1975. I still haven't answered this. If not I'll make a gues at it. Or model it in post 1975 state.

 

If I had more early pictures of model it before the loco shed was removed but I've yet to see more then a single badly positioned pic of that shed

 

I will operate the balkinrobe branch as if it were still in operation into early 80s. So aec railcar C class and single coach or even G class. Aka loughrea branch

 

See my other posts re layout diagram

 

So, Claremorris as it would have looked in the early 1980s if it had retained its pre-1975 track plan and the Ballinrobe branch remained open? If you're using your modeller's licence to create that scene, surely you can also use it on a lone building?

[Glenderg]

Glenderg

 

thanks

 

This bit confuses me

 

 

 

I suspect the road side door was bigger then the platform door.

 

I was interested in the double doors for the goods wagons, how dod that work, since the spacing is wrong and I wondered when the wagon access doors where blocked up

 

 

 

 

No , That window was open till well into 2000+, I have later pics. I suspect it was only closed in the recent track rationalisation when the goods shed was leased to a private company and the window was closed for security

 

 

The steel canopy is there from early 80s at least ,

 

They weren't double doors, I suspect, but single sliding doors. And theres no evidence of a door opening on the north end, or internal rail access. If it's 1975, leave the openings for vehicular traffic, and apply the awful canopy. You can then extend the period of operation 1970-1980.

 

The platform side doors would have been identical to the road side - there was a cattle pen on the platform, so the cattle would have been marched through the shed and out to awaiting cattle wagons. Wouldn't make design or operational sense to make the opening smaller to cause congestion.

 

Edited December 15, 2015 by Glenderg

[Junctionmad]

urely you can also use it on a lone building

 

sure sure , just trying to get to the truth, first , then corrupt it

 

here's the layout

Edited December 15, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

They weren't double doors, I suspect, but single sliding doors. And theres no evidence of a door opening on the north end, or internal rail access. If it's 1975, leave the openings for vehicular traffic, and apply the awful canopy. You can then extend the period of operation 1970-1980.

 

The platform side doors would have been identical to the road side - there was a cattle pen on the platform, so the cattle would have been marched through the shed and out to awaiting cattle wagons. Wouldn't make design or operational sense to make the opening smaller to cause congestion.

 

 

think your confusing two things , The big loading platform area to the north had a small cattle pen, made from rails, but the big building there is the claremorris mart building removed in around 2005

 

the goods shed was also at the end of a platform , still there to this day, Its never handled cattle as far I I could see, The goods shed had a sliding door , near a crane that opened onto this platform , separated from the passenger platform by a wall, The northern side of the goods shed has two doors for handling access to wagons , blocked up post 75 when the building was converted into a cement or keg store.

 

what I trying to visualise was the vehicular door as it would have orginalyy been designed and also the two wagon access doors, how did they get used, was each wagon placed specifically at each door ?

 

are there any MGWR sheds with similar features for comparison ( i.e. pre mods)

[Glenderg]

think your confusing two things , The big loading platform area to the north had a small cattle pen, made from rails, but the big building there is the claremorris mart building removed in around 2005

 

the goods shed was also at the end of a platform , still there to this day, Its never handled cattle as far I I could see,

 

Yes it did. I saw a black and white photo somewhere with a small capture pen on the platform in the bottom left hand of the photo, about where the concrete buffer is/was now. Secondly, it did handle cattle. See map below.

 

 

what I trying to visualise was the vehicular door as it would have orginalyy been designed and also the two wagon access doors, how did they get used, was each wagon placed specifically at each door ?

 

are there any MGWR sheds with similar features for comparison ( i.e. pre mods)

 

Tuam, Roscommon ? I don't know. Go on Eiretrains.com and make a trip to the IRRS to do a bit of research perhaps.

[iarnrod]

Can't wait to see this layout progress. Plan looks excellent. Always had a fondness for Claremorris station.

[iarnrod]

Second the IRRS research suggestion. They may possess old photos of Claremorris in the archive or original plans for the shed. Failing that, you could contact the Heritage Office in IE and see if they can supply shed drawings. I found the Heritage Office to be very helpful, and the Archives in the IRRS were extremely helpful with my queries recently.

[Junctionmad]

Second the IRRS research suggestion. They may possess old photos of Claremorris in the archive or original plans for the shed. Failing that, you could contact the Heritage Office in IE and see if they can supply shed drawings. I found the Heritage Office to be very helpful, and the Archives in the IRRS were extremely helpful with my queries recently.

Sent in my pink joining form just today.

[Junctionmad]

Yes it did. I saw a black and white photo somewhere with a small capture pen on the platform in the bottom left hand of the photo, about where the concrete buffer is/was now. Secondly, it did handle cattle. See map below.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21773[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Tuam, Roscommon ? I don't know. Go on Eiretrains.com and make a trip to the IRRS to do a bit of research perhaps.

 

The pen on the end of the passanger platform behind the concrete buffer is detailed in a few old photos. I suspect it was not for cattle as it didnt seem strong enough and may have been used for horses . The cattle loading always took place on the long northern goods platform after track initial reconfiguration ( which was pre 1945 )

 

Here's a 1950 pic, of the old goods shed and the relevant pen , note original goods shed office

 

And one from 1960 , pen gone shed office new

 

Copyright o'dea collection , Nli

Edited December 15, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Mayner]

agreed, but I dont think oil handling was ever handled on the other side, most of the southern side was used by the ballinrobe service and engine run round etc . The ESSO depot itself only appeared in the late 60s , certainly 1950s show no oil silos.

 

late 60s seems early for container crane.? didn't all these get bought in the freight modernisation plan of the 70s

 

according to station staff, the goods shed was used a keg store rather then bagged cement , but that could have been later, there is a photo on the station of kegs being forlklifted into it around the 80s

 

I had meant oil traffic was handled a the Southern Yard the old WLWR goods yard rather than the stub of the Ballinrobe branch.

 

May 1969 edition of Irish Railfans News records that Galway and Claremorris were the latest stations to receive gantry cranes for container traffic and that all keg traffic except Belfast is now transported in special Lancashire Flats loaded by the gantry crane at the Guinness Sidings at Heuston..

 

Its possible Claremorris may have ceased to handle bagged cement traffic when IE went though one of its rationalisation processes in the late 80. The volume of keg traffic handled at Claremorris increased with the closure of Westport, Castlebar and eventually Galway to freight traffic.

[Glenderg]

Can I ask why you're looking for all this info from an era that's quite obsolete for the period you're modelling?

[Horsetan]

.....Here's a 1950 pic..... note original goods shed office

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21774[/ATTACH]

 

And one from 1960 , pen gone shed office new

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21775[/ATTACH]

Copyright o'dea collection , Nli

 

It looks like the shed office was extended rather than being a completely new building. You can still see the original brick/stonework and windows on the 1960 photo.

[Junctionmad]

Can I ask why you're looking for all this info from an era that's quite obsolete for the period you're modelling?

 

Because it lets me understand the progress of the building through the period , I was thinking of modelling the goods shed pre modifications of the front road valance , so I'm trying to estimate when that was added , it has been suggested 80s which is later then my chosen period

 

In other words because I've picked 75 to 80 as the desired period technically allowing some Black and Tan and super train , I'm trying to establish when the goods shed was modified ( ie wagon access door blocked and new road access door installed ). If it's 80s , I can model older version etc

 

No 201s mk3 or auto ballasters for Me !

Edited December 16, 2015 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

I had meant oil traffic was handled a the Southern Yard the old WLWR goods yard rather than the stub of the Ballinrobe branch.

 

May 1969 edition of Irish Railfans News records that Galway and Claremorris were the latest stations to receive gantry cranes for container traffic and that all keg traffic except Belfast is now transported in special Lancashire Flats loaded by the gantry crane at the Guinness Sidings at Heuston..

 

Its possible Claremorris may have ceased to handle bagged cement traffic when IE went though one of its rationalisation processes in the late 80. The volume of keg traffic handled at Claremorris increased with the closure of Westport, Castlebar and eventually Galway to freight traffic.

 

 

So would you suggest the wider road door and valance were added in the 70s or 80 s. If the bagged cement was started before kegs t may mean the goods shed door was put in in the 70 s.

 

I know that claremorris keg storage was then moved to a Guinness secure pen, near the removed mart building , it's still there

[Junctionmad]

Horse tan , Yes the shed was modified rather then rebuilt. In the early 80s a chimney was added to its roof when the internal office n the shed was removed.

[Junctionmad]

Thanks everyone so far. There's been great responses from several people including glenderg and others

 

I think for my period 75-80 , I can assume

 

The original front valance and road door was in place . As yet I've not tracked down a decent end on photo

 

The office was rebuilt as it is today , except the chimney wasn't added ( that came in the esrly 80s I believe

 

The roof would be the new one as currently exists.

 

That leaves the question of when the two wagon access doors were blocked up ? , logic would suggest that was done when the new door and valance was added in the 80 s

 

Trying a specific date to the new valance and door in the 80s would be really useful. That's where the IRRS records might help

[Glenderg]

What you could model, which would get you out of a hole so to speak, is have a scene with workmen blocking up one door, with just a chink of light left, scaffolding, cement mixers, and so on. Leave the other one open, which would give you a glimpse into the past, and be current at the same time. Anyone familiar with the place will know that ultimately know that they were all closed in, so you'd present your historical timeline in one fell swoop and also have a cool little diorama.

[Junctionmad]

What you could model, which would get you out of a hole so to speak, is have a scene with workmen blocking up one door, with just a chink of light left, scaffolding, cement mixers, and so on. Leave the other one open, which would give you a glimpse into the past, and be current at the same time. Anyone familiar with the place will know that ultimately know that they were all closed in, so you'd present your historical timeline in one fell swoop and also have a cool little diorama.

 

I think it will boil down to a pre esrly 80s with goods shed operational. Or post front door changes and wagon access doors blocked up

[Glenderg]

My solution give you both options