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Claremorris Goods shed

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Junctionmad

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Hi oh knowledgable ones..

 

IMG_2591 copy.jpg

 

Two questions, anyone know when these doors were sealed up ?, IN all the historical pictures I have , I havent one of this side of the goods shed!

 

Also how did unloading through these doors work, they dont seem to be spaced in any meaningful way, was each wagon seperately positioned beside each door ? , any similar photos from other locations that explains it ?

 

Also I presume the inside originally had a raised floor and hence a form of loading bay at the door

 

Heres the goods platform end , note clearly the larger door ope,, but there is no corresponding door to the right of that , as is seemed to suggest in the photo below

 

IMG_2586 copy.jpg

 

heres the inside

 

IMG_2429 copy.jpg

 

IMG_2429 copy.jpg

 

IMG_2428.jpg

 

Interesting the evidence of the door to the left of the fireplace, has absolutely no evidence on the outer wall. whereas the window is clearly there, I wonder how that was done ???,

 

IMG_2421.jpg

 

note the " rails " above the doors and to the side wall , ??? amy ideas

 

Note the vertical rails or steel embedded in the end wall to the left of the door, anyone any ideas ( another door ????, and there is a form of lintel above these, yet there is again NO evidence in the external stone work ( see photo 2 above )

 

IMG_2593.jpg

 

There was clear evidence of a internal office, with a fireplace, but I suspect that was before the late fifties remodelling of the station , as there is evidence that the external office was increased in size ( edit: actually post 1964 and pre 1972)

 

There is also evidence that the door onto the outside goods platform was much larger which would make sense

 

I was also wondering if the internal platform extended all the way across the internal shed, and would they have been a inset loading bay at the main door

 

It always amused me as to where the door was position as the siding effectively blocked the entrance of the shed, I wonder was the large door and canopy added in the fifties rework as the concrete surrounds on it look much later then the original shed construction , perhaps the only door was the original in the other wall onto the goods platform

 

The internals are full of wall lintels , showing the history of the shed, I even suspect it was re-roofed as they is evidence that the areas under the gutters was infilled ( and the roof is corrugated , since the reconstruction I below, unlikely to be original )

 

all ideas and references to other sheds welcome

 

claremorris is a difficult station to pin down as it : suffered" almost continuous modifications from the 50s onwards . but Ill take some modellers license, in building the structures and try and represent them in working order irrespective of period

 

 

Heres a close up of the goods shed pre-1950s mods, the chimney for the internal office is clear as is the larger door in the gable and the roof is clearly different , its hard to determine whats to the right of the door ( corresponding to the lintels inside) note that there is a form of small canopy but its not over the door underneath and its hard to determine what is in the photo there ( is that a crane ?)

Screenshot 2015-12-02 18.38.43.jpg

copyright O'Dea collection

 

 

thanks for any help

dave

 

All photos with permission of IE and or private owners

Edited by Junctionmad
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The canopy and roller doors in the West end of the goods shed and the blocking of the windows was most likely carried out in connection with the introduction of Liner Trains for bagged cement traffic in 1976-7. (1st pallet cement wagons introduced 1976)

 

Loose coupled goods trains continued to operate for another year or so until sundries traffic was containerised using 10” & 20’ Uniload containers.

 

One of the advantages of modelling Claremorris is that there was relatively little change in the track layout and general appearance of the station between the closure of the Ballinrobe line and the ripping out of the junction with the Limerick line in the early 2000s despite the change from loose coupled to liner train operation.

 

Bagged cement trains to stations in County Mayo operated from the Limerick rather than Drogheda factory. The daily Limerick-Claremorris loose coupled goods ceased to operate after the closure of Tuam and Gort to sundries and wagon load traffic.

 

The transition era from loose coupled to liner train operation would be an interesting to model, with loose coupled goods train carrying sundries and containers as individual wagon loads operating alongside the newly introduced Liner trains carrying Asahi, bagged cement, fertiliser and twice weekly North Wall-Oranmore-Claremorris ESSO oil train.

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The canopy and roller doors in the West end of the goods shed and the blocking of the windows was most likely carried out in connection with the introduction of Liner Trains for bagged cement traffic in 1976-7. (1st pallet cement wagons introduced 1976)

 

Loose coupled goods trains continued to operate for another year or so until sundries traffic was containerised using 10” & 20’ Uniload containers.

 

One of the advantages of modelling Claremorris is that there was relatively little change in the track layout and general appearance of the station between the closure of the Ballinrobe line and the ripping out of the junction with the Limerick line in the early 2000s despite the change from loose coupled to liner train operation.

 

Bagged cement trains to stations in County Mayo operated from the Limerick rather than Drogheda factory. The daily Limerick-Claremorris loose coupled goods ceased to operate after the closure of Tuam and Gort to sundries and wagon load traffic.

 

The transition era from loose coupled to liner train operation would be an interesting to model, with loose coupled goods train carrying sundries and containers as individual wagon loads operating alongside the newly introduced Liner trains carrying Asahi, bagged cement, fertiliser and twice weekly North Wall-Oranmore-Claremorris ESSO oil train.

 

Yes , that's the period I'm interested as it corresponds with my teenage train years , allows a mix of stock from small loose coupled Black and Tan through to super train and liners, bagged and bulk cement , fertiliSers etc. , also good coaching stock variation

 

Others have suggested the shed was converted in the 80s. Rather then mid 70s. One thing I don't have is a Picture of the original road door . Maybe my IRRS searches will throw up something. I have a 1975 picture that doesn't show the new road door canopy

 

Outside of the o'dea collection, there's very little 75-80 pictures of claremorris , quite a lot of post 1980 -2000 pics.

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I take it you've given up on doing Limerick Junction, then.

 

:trains:

 

He has. CM has so much more operating potential and diverse traffic than LJ. LJ also very award to model in 00 due to length required, not to mention the most boring looking station lacking a platform on the other side of the main line. It's like a sentence without a full stop, or a goods train without a brake van - unfinished! :)

 

But I suspect CM will be worth waiting for.

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I take it you've given up on doing Limerick Junction, then.

 

:trains:

 

Yes. Primarily as Noel has said , it's too difficult to fit into a conventional baseboard setup. Both length needed and a way of accommodating the flat crossover.

 

I don't agree with Noel as to its looks. True the station building is a bit like a stagluff XV concentration camp administration block ( especially from the road )

 

Bit the main issue n model terms would be to accommodate platform length wise , 5-6 coaches plus engine doubled. Less then that , it doesn't work.

 

Claremorris has the advantage of essentially five tracks converging , yet the layout is reasonably compact even of the length has to be squeezed. Using modellers license and retaining the ballinrobe branch operational into the 70s is a small conceit, especially as the track work was not remodelled upon its closure. The existence of " knock " specials allows a crazy number of passanger trains in the station at any one time ( upwards of 30 locos and 160 carriages )

Edited by Junctionmad
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Track laying starts in the new year. Handbuilt 16.2 mm 00-SF in station area flaring to 16.5mm 00 C&L new style bull head flexi , and then to PECO code 75 in non scenic areas/fiddle yard. I have a electric TVs lifting mechanism , that I'd like to modify into a vertical stacking system. But that's in the future

 

Code 55 flatbottom on copperclad will be used to represent the lighter gauge goods sidings etc.

 

The layout will feature working semaphore and ground signals , MERG DCC control system and MERG CBUS can controller based layout bus.

 

( ambition is a great thing )

Edited by Junctionmad
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Track laying starts in the new year. Handbuilt 16.2 mm 00-SF in station area flaring to 16.5mm 00 C&L new style bull head flexi , and then to PECO code 75 in non scenic areas/fiddle yard. I have a electric TVs lifting mechanism , that I'd like to modify into a vertical stacking system. But that's in the future

 

Code 55 flatbottom on copperclad will be used to represent the lighter gauge goods sidings etc.

 

The layout will feature working semaphore and ground signals , MERG DCC control system and MERG CBUS can controller based layout bus.

 

( ambition is a great thing )

 

Cannot wait to see this emerge.

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That would be a shunting challenge without equal.

 

Wouldn't it just , they must of hidden them up trees. ( well actually they just pushed them all up the ballinrobe branch. Basically they used every piece of track possible. Then they reassembled all the trains again for the return journey in the evening ( they were on Sunday's usually ) 9-10 carraige trains came from everywhere in Ireland , msny using the limerick line even when it no longer supported timetabled traffic. Trains would come from all major railhead towns across the country, often arriving within minutes of one another.

Edited by Junctionmad
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Wouldn't it just , they must of hidden them up trees. ( well actually they just pushed them all up the ballinrobe branch. Basically they used every piece of track possible. Then they reassembled all the trains again for the return journey in the evening ( they were on Sunday's usually ) 9-10 carraige trains came from everywhere in Ireland , msny using the limerick line even when it no longer supported timetabled traffic. Trains would come from all major railhead towns across the country, often arriving within minutes of one another.

 

Yes, I've seen some photos in "Rails To The West" - it must have made Claremorris as busy as stations in Dub.

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Southern Yard, brill photos , if you have any more I would be delighted , engines sand trains stuck up every siding

 

I wonder what they did when the burma and ennis lines were in service

 

any dates on those photos , looks early 80s ? latex 70s, it was before the lowered the platform starter i see

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1982 is the date of those photos. I have some more will try and dig them out.

 

I'm particularly fond of the last photo, it captures the intricate point work at the north end of the station. Shows the flexibility of the yard.

 

I don't think the Limerick Sligo service ran on Sunday's so they could park 3 trains up the line towards Kiltimagh back to back.

Edited by Southern Yard
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They also stacked trains in the Claremorris-Balla section on Sundays, there was an IRRS Journal Article in the 70s or 80s that went into detail on the working of pilgrimage trains at Claremorris.

 

The practice seems to have been mainly to eliminate running round in Claremorris on busy days by swapping locos between trains in section. Once the passengers had disembarked a number of arriving trains would continue into the Claremorris-Balla section followed by a light engine, The trains would then return to Claremorris followed by a light loco and the process possibly repeat itself if necessary.

 

 

I am not sure if regular services were cancelled on busy Sundays, but in 1980 the Claremorris-Balla section was free between the departure of the Up Westport passenger at 09:37 and the arrival of the Down Athlone-Westport passenger at 13:22.

Edited by Mayner
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We touched on the subject of handling Knock specials in this thread http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/1453-Manullla-Junction/page2?highlight=manulla+junction. Rather than uncoupling locos from the trains they had pulled and coupling up to the one in front, this suggests that they ran round at Manulla and then shunted the train towards Westport?

 

Stephen

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We touched on the subject of handling Knock specials in this thread http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/1453-Manullla-Junction/page2?highlight=manulla+junction. Rather than uncoupling locos from the trains they had pulled and coupling up to the one in front, this suggests that they ran round at Manulla and then shunted the train towards Westport?

 

Stephen

 

The loop at Manulla was lifted at some stage after the closure of the station in the 1960s, the practice of queuing a number of trains in section uncoupling the locos and coupling to the train in front was described described in an IRRS Journal article on working Knock specials. The same practice was also used at Ashtown to handle a large number of specials for the 1980 Papal visit. A temporary trailing crossover was installed and the Down Line between Ashtown treated as a siding for storing the specials.

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Here's a piece of work I did on a Knock special day in Claremorris from an IRRS article. The date was 23-06-1975 and it made for fascinating reading.

 

There were 16 specials and the tables below detail the movements of the day and where they were stored.

 

Unfortunately I was just 5 month old so didn't get to witness.

 

 

Knock Spl.jpg

 

 

Knock Spl1.png

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Here's a piece of work I did on a Knock special day in Claremorris from an IRRS article. The date was 23-06-1975 and it made for fascinating reading.

 

There were 16 specials and the tables below detail the movements of the day and where they were stored.

 

Unfortunately I was just 5 month old so didn't get to witness.

 

That's fascinating. Thanks for posting. All the double headers must have been to negate the problems a potential loco breakdown might have caused to the 'stack and rack' operation. I wonder what CIE train & bus logistics were like in the major Dublin stations for 1979 papal visit. Presume the sidings at the old Phoenix park races course must have come into play and Heuston & Inchacore must have been a maze of coaching stock.

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Folks , I was reminded on reviewing my photos, how valuable for historical reasons , the shots of structures at stations are, just as valuable as the locos etc. I just saw that claremorris this year had all the track around the turntable and ballinrobe sidings redone, changed and all the old line side building and diesel refuelling structures etc all bulldozed. Jeepers, this stuff changes in front of our eyes, I have complete photographic record of those demolished buildings ( sure they look worthless to an outsider )

 

Its amazing stuff just disappears almost in front of our eyes

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...was reminded...how valuable...the shots of structures at stations are, just as valuable as the locos etc. I just saw that claremorris this year had all the track around the turntable and ballinrobe sidings redone, changed and all the old line side building and diesel refuelling structures etc all bulldozed. Jeepers, this stuff changes in front of our eyes

 

 

Very true. Loco shots are all very well, but we should turn our back to them sometimes and record the other detail just as much, cars, billboards, passengers waiting, track detail, coaches etc. I never cease to be amazed at how short sighted even the best photographers could be in the 50's and 60's, focussing almost exclusively on locos, forgetting all the other paraphanalia that really set the image in its time.

 

If you're at a place that you've been to a million times but you haven't recorded it then photograph it there and now. You never know when something that you take for granted can just disappear overnight.

Classic example for me was Ennis semaphore signalling. I photographed it on a Friday evening as it was to be removed the following day. Went down the following morning, thinking i might get a few last shots, and not a trace of it remained. It was like it had never existed.

Edited by Weshty
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Very true. Loco shots are all very well, but we should turn our back to them sometimes and record the other detail just as much, cars, billboards, passengers waiting, track detail, coaches etc. I never cease to be amazed at how short sighted even the best photographers could be in the 50's and 60's, focussing almost exclusively on locos, forgetting all the other paraphanalia that really set the image in its time.

 

As well as passengers...staff! I can't recall who mentioned it at an IRRS show, but it was said that if aliens got hold of some pictorial railway books, they could be forgiven for thinking that railways ran without any human intervention.

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James P O'Dea and Fr. Frank Browne always took "human" photographs and were very much ahead of their time that way.

 

I note that several modern photographers have taken their influence on board. It has to be said, though, that the vast majority of enthusiasts (though not all) prefer locos, coaches and wagons!

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A checklist to photograph (stating the bleeding obvious but...)

 

Timetables,fares listing and tickets (in the 80s, the season ticket was filled out by hand)

Car parks

Billboards

Station Signage of all types

Passengers

Coach interiors, walls floors,ceilings

gangways

Cab interior shot

Signalling- main and ground (these puppies have changed a bit in the 5 years since I shot them)

Bogies

Buildings

Relay cabinets

Station doors & windows (are they original wood, ironframe or dreaded PVC?)

Bridges (we've lost a few of the cut stone ones due to height restrictions)

Level crossings and lamps (a lot of the 70s ones have been replaced and very few paraffin lamps remain, now small LED jobbies)

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Hi Guys

 

I have just finished reading this thread and in one way I am glad that you have exactly the same problems as I do living miles away from Claremorris.

 

I don't mean it in a bad way, but if you guys are having problems get the sort of details you need for a layout based in the 1980's then I take my hat off to you for doing what you have so far.

 

Making a model of a prototype is always going to have difficulties and as sure as eggs are eggs the first time you take the layout to an exhibition in the area some guy will turn up and say 'but that was not how it was' you will no doubt want to do one of two things, 1) leave the layout as is or 2) rebuild the offending building with the fresh details.

 

I can't remember who said it but I am still finding out things about Railways over here in the UK which have long gone, may I suggest with my researcher's hat on, that you consult the local paper and if Claremorris has one a visit to the local library and or heritage center if it has one, also drop in to any of the older looking shops, hotels and pubs (a good excuse for a beer or two) and have a chat, you would be surprised at what you might just turn up.

 

You might not get any modelling done, but it sure as hell makes for a great day out.

 

I have also had a look via Google street view as of today and you can see stuff which people even today will pass by as it has always been there.

 

While I am still trying to get the basic's right for an Irish layout, more power to your elbow.

 

Like you I like Claremorris for what you can do with it as a layout, it has that Irish feel about it in buckets and should I chose to build something, I think Claremorris will be the basis of such a layout.

 

I would use up a lot more of modellers license as well, I like the photos of the station layout board and I will certainly being using that as the basis for the possible model. I know it may be from a much later date than the period I want to model (1940 to 1960) but I can just imagine trains from the GNR(i), NCC, GSR and even the SL&NCR Cattle trains reaching there as well.

 

This would make a great exhibition layout in 21mm gauge and what better way than to display the various parts of the steam age of Irish railways.

 

Just because I want to model it with 21mm gauge does not mean it is going to be a fine scale finished layout, far from it, it will have to have some compromises at some point.

 

Good luck with the layout, I can't wait to see how its getting on.

 

 

Colin

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Thanks Colin, I'm committed to showing the Ballinrobe section at next Easters Wexford show . That's concentrating the mind , let me tell you

 

For me railways was about the same infrastructure not the trains actually

 

Anyway , I keep finding ( or being sent ) new photographs , at this stage I have close to 300 of the station , going back to the 40s. Fancibating to watch how the infrastructure changes over time , doors spear and disappear , openings change , etc.

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