Narrow Gauge Livery

[roxyguy]

Hi,

 

Forgive if this has been covered before.

 

Did any of the narrow gauge loco's that wound up being operated by CIE ever bare the snail? What was the colour scheme?

 

I know some the coaches did.

 

Cheers

[Garfield]

Hi,

 

Forgive if this has been covered before.

 

Did any of the narrow gauge loco's that wound up being operated by CIE ever bare the snail? What was the colour scheme?

 

I know some the coaches did.

 

Cheers

 

In Volume 1 of Tom Ferris' 'Irish Railways in Colour', there's a photo of 6T with a Flying Snail on its buffer beam while in charge of one of the last services on the C&L. However, it looks like it might have been applied with chalk, so not sure how official it was. Can't think of any apart from that...

[roxyguy]

In Volume 1 of Tom Ferris' 'Irish Railways in Colour', there's a photo of 6T with a Flying Snail on its buffer beam while in charge of one of the last services on the C&L. However, it looks like it might have been applied with chalk, so not sure how official it was. Can't think of any apart from that...

 

Cheers for that. I actually have that book somewhere so I'll have a route.

[Andy Cundick]

The simple answer is no the 6t snail is as stated chalked on,Andy

[leslie10646]

Andy is, of course right!

 

I have the colour slide collection of the late Lance King here - I'm digitising it for the IRRS.

 

There are photos of half a dozen different engines on the C&L - Tralee and Blackrock included.

 

NO Snails - usually they carried their number in pretty big numerals on the tank side.

 

I haven't scanned the West Clare yet, but will report when I get that far!

[roxyguy]

Andy is, of course right!

 

I have the colour slide collection of the late Lance King here - I'm digitising it for the IRRS.

 

There are photos of half a dozen different engines on the C&L - Tralee and Blackrock included.

 

NO Snails - usually they carried their number in pretty big numerals on the tank side.

 

I haven't scanned the West Clare yet, but will report when I get that far!

 

Cheers for that. I might do one with a snail anyway. I always fancied the wild west look of the ones fitted with cow catchers.

[jhb171achill]

No tank engines carried snails, and all cie narrow gauge engines were tank engines.

 

Until about 1949 onwards, locos continued the GSR practice of cast numberplates painted over grey like the rest of the loco. Sometimes the numerals were picked out in cream or pale yellow, sometimes not at all. All narrow gauge locos under the GSR and CIE were all over grey, chimney, smokebox, cab, motion and wheels included. None got the black which a few 5ft 3 locos got very late in the day.

 

So, it's plain grey for everything!

 

After 1949, many locos had their numberplates removed and large painted pale yellow numerals placed on tank sides instead.

 

Buffer beams were technically red, but many were in practice so weathered, faded and dirty that they were indistinguishable from the grey livery!

[roxyguy]

No tank engines carried snails, and all cie narrow gauge engines were tank engines.

 

Until about 1949 onwards, locos continued the GSR practice of cast numberplates painted over grey like the rest of the loco. Sometimes the numerals were picked out in cream or pale yellow, sometimes not at all. All narrow gauge locos under the GSR and CIE were all over grey, chimney, smokebox, cab, motion and wheels included. None got the black which a few 5ft 3 locos got very late in the day.

 

So, it's plain grey for everything!

 

After 1949, many locos had their numberplates removed and large painted pale yellow numerals placed on tank sides instead.

 

Buffer beams were technically red, but many were in practice so weathered, faded and dirty that they were indistinguishable from the grey livery!

 

Cheers for that. My can of grey primer will do the job so!

[Mayner]

There are colour photos of 6T on the C&L in both the Irish Railways colour albums by Tom Ferris. The loco was overhauled and re-painted in 1956 before she was transferred to the C&L.

 

One of the photos is of the recently overhauled loco taking water at Drumshanbo in which one of the side tanks looks suspiciously like black while the smokebox, tank fronts and dome have a greyish tinge. Whether this was an effect of sunlight reflected on the side of the tank and the effect of heat, smoke and ash dulling the paint on the boiler fittings and smokebox is another question.

 

The overhaul included red buffer beams & nice large yellow numerals on the tank sides, but not to a shaded numeral on the buffer beam instead 6T was chalked on the buffer beam.

 

I attempted to model 3T & 6T as they ran on the C&L in the late 50s 3T weathered grey (Railmatch Dirty Black) & 6T in Halfords satin black

[roxyguy]

I picked this up recently. It's battery operated but it's looks like its based on a german prototype and is nicely detailed. With some modification - especially the chimney - it might bare a passing resemblance to and Irish narrow gauge loco. Its G gauge.

[jhb171achill]

Yes, with oily rags, the right light, and soot, the grey could at times look (especially in black and white photos) as black or blackish.

 

I saw two pics one time of a J15 on a train - possibly an enthusiast's special of some sort if memory serves me right - both taken of the same train in the same station on the same day; and by the same photographer. One, with the light right, is clearly grey, albeit dirty. The other side of the loco with the light a different way looks distinctly black! GNR blue was another colour which could look lighter at times, giving rise to the quite incorrect myth that Dundalk "just went down to the nearest paint shop".

 

I actually knew the former Dundalk Works Manager very well, and he found that enthusiast-fuelled myth quite offensive, pointing out that they had their own paint laboratory in the works.....

 

CIE green - particularly the later, lighter shade is notorious for appearing in numerous apparent varieties in olour photos. I am currently going through a collection of these for a future book, and in one photo I have, three green vehicles look, respectively, accurate green, navy blue and brown! ALL are CIE green!

[roxyguy]

That's the thing about photos, even now. I have worked in print for years - You cant rely on them for colour matching whatsoever.

 

You can use photographic techniques to reproduce artwork and get completely different results.

[jhb171achill]

That's the thing about photos, even now. I have worked in print for years - You cant rely on them for colour matching whatsoever.

 

You can use photographic techniques to reproduce artwork and get completely different results.

 

Exactly.

 

This is where accurate memories, paint samples and the like come in useful. Many of the railway coats of arms in Selwyn Johnston's Headhunters Railway Museum in Enniskillen are mounted on boards painted in actual railway paint.

 

Police forces worldwide will tell us of the numerous times they have stood in court and watched tiresome arguments over what colour the car was which overtook the other one and caused the crash.

 

Some people have extremely accurate memories for colour, down to the most subtle variations in shade, and can be relied on to say whether a modern interpretation is accurate or not. Other people have anything but!

 

I am aware that the current grey on 186 was passed as absolutely right by at least two ex-Inchicore people with exceptional recall. Things like this need to be noted down for future generations. My own actual sample of it on my grandfather's O gauge model agrees.

 

There's a lovely 00 gauge J15 model in a display case in the IRRS, in a very realistically weathered form. But it's black, and thus doesn't look right at all, which is a pity.

Edited March 28, 2017 by jhb171achill

[roxyguy]

Not to mention that sight itself is subjective. There is a psychological factor, people see and remember colours in very different ways.

 

I myself am slightly colour blind and rely and pantone numbers for accuracy.

[jhb171achill]

Indeed. Many people on here display stunningly excellent work on their hand made models and layouts. At my most dexterous, I would not have been able to achieve a fraction of what is routinely seen on this website.

 

However, I have tried over the years to record and share what I know to be accurate in terms of colour schemes, as I have more by accident than design accumulated a lot of information on this over the years. At the same time I will try to point out inaccuracies in modern reproduction of long-gone liveries especially where there seems to be a wide assumption of something which was not the case.

 

If a model is assembled wrongly, it won't work, and may have cost the maker a lot of now-wasted money and time. If it's painted in a wrong livery, nobody has ever died; so many may consider the concept to be very peripheral.

 

On the other hand, the colour of every object every one of us sees every day is the first thing our brain registers about it. It would be my own aim to contribute what I can in this arena.

[roxyguy]

I hear ya. Now this is slightly off topic but it's related.

 

I loved the TV version of Thomas Tank when I was a child because of all it's wonderful miniatures.

 

I never ever felt compelled to buy any of the hornby thomas stuff because it didn't look right. They just bashed up moulding they had already and put a face on it.

 

When I saw the Bachmann stuff, which is new tooling and a faithful reproduction of what I remember from the TV show as a child It had an immediate emotional effect based on memory. So I bought some.

[jhb171achill]

I hear ya. Now this is slightly off topic but it's related.

 

I loved the TV version of Thomas Tank when I was a child because of all it's wonderful miniatures.

 

I never ever felt compelled to buy any of the hornby thomas stuff because it didn't look right. They just bashed up moulding they had already and put a face on it.

 

When I saw the Bachmann stuff, which is new tooling and a faithful reproduction of what I remember from the TV show as a child It had an immediate emotional effect based on memory. So I bought some.

 

 

Exactly!!!

[jhb171achill]

Proper chimney, remove cowcatcher and add proper buffer beam, round-topped dome and super-sized headlamps, and dip it in a tin of grey paint and you've a Westish Clareish looking thing indeed.....

[jhb171achill]

I picked this up recently. It's battery operated but it's looks like its based on a german prototype and is nicely detailed. With some modification - especially the chimney - it might bare a passing resemblance to and Irish narrow gauge loco. Its G gauge.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27392[/ATTACH]

 

Proper chimney, remove cowcatcher and add proper buffer beam, round-topped dome and super-sized headlamps, and dip it in a tin of grey paint and you've a Westish Clareish looking thing indeed.....

[roxyguy]

Proper chimney, remove cowcatcher and add proper buffer beam, round-topped dome and super-sized headlamps, and dip it in a tin of grey paint and you've a Westish Clareish looking thing indeed.....

 

That's the plan, it's just a bit of cheap fun for the garden. I bought some decal paper so I am tempted to put an EDN snail on it!

Edited March 29, 2017 by roxyguy

[jhb171achill]

That's the plan, it's just a bit of cheap fun for the garden. I bought some decal paper so I am tempted to put an EDN snail on it!

 

Why not!

[roxyguy]

Not the correct livery or prototypical, but much more presentable in the garden.

 

[jhb171achill]

No matter what the colour, it shows how a simple repaint can change the character of a model entirely!

 

Looks well.

[Noel]

Love the flying snail. She looks really well.

[roxyguy]

Cheers lads, will be nice to have it running around the garden for the summer. I might be able to balance a pint in the open wagon.

[jhb171achill]

Pints available?

 

Excellent - we'll all call round later.

[roxyguy]

Pints available?

 

Excellent - we'll all call round later.

 

This restaurant actually serves its drink with G scale trains. Epic.