CIE Model N Bus body

[Colin R]

Hi all

 

As part of an on going project for my OOn3 gauge model, I have come across something which I hope one of you guys can help me with.

 

As you will know the old Cavan & Leitrim Railway had a number of carriages rebuild with bus bodies towards the end of operations.

 

I have been informed that the bodies used to rebuild these coaches came from the CIE model N bus.

 

I would love to say has anyone got any drawings of these buses? but a request on a Bus site drew a blank, so the next thing is does anyone have a photo of these buses while they where used on the road, I don't have a clue as to the routes they where used on, but I am sure some one out there will know and be able to help.

 

Thanks

 

Colin

[DiveController]

They're pretty old, early CIE, maybe GSR.

I presume this is the finished product you refer to but no luck with a photo of the original I'm afraid

[jhb171achill]

There was just the one coach thus rebuilt. This was No. 7, which had suffered badly from outside storage and was sent to Inchicore for repair in the early 1940s by the GSR. It seems that it was somewhat patched up and returned, but it was a "string-and-sellotape" job and by 1951 it was back at Inchicore, this time reduced to a chassis. In 1953 it returned to Ballinamore as the "Bus-Coach" (as it was known).

 

I'm no bus expert, so I've no idea what the original buses looked like, but they were GSR "NP" class single deckers. The cabs were cut off and two bodies were placed end to end, with the doors at the outermost ends. The rear doors had equivalent ones made on the opposite sides,so that the coach had access doors at both ends, on both sides. It was painted unlined CIE dark green (1945-55 shade). There was no CIE logo, only the number "7L". It retained this to the end, never being repainted (like most of everything on the C & L in GSR and CIE days!).

 

As you'll see in Ernie's picture, the guard's end had a double door for luggage on each side. It seated 36 passengers on bus seats. Latterly, it appears to have been principally used on the Belturbet line, forming the entire passenger accommodation on the sole daily through train from Dromod. It never had any heating, and the roof leaked, probably due to a botched job of joining the two buses together. With an average speed of 12 miles per hour over the line, the rail passengers north of Ballinamore were hardly well served in the 1950s!

[Colin R]

That's the one guys, thank Jon for the correct classification of the buses, it is no wonder no one came back to me about it.

 

Colin

[Garfield]

As you will know the old Cavan & Leitrim Railway had a number of carriages rebuild with bus bodies towards the end of operations.

 

Just to clarify... the Cavan & Leitrim just had the one 'bus coach'. The West Clare had a few of them, but they were on shorter chassis.

[Colin R]

Oops yes I forgot those, but yes you are right Allen has said he would do these for me in OOn3 if I had a drawing, so the search continues.

 

Colin

[jhb171achill]

Just to clarify... the Cavan & Leitrim just had the one 'bus coach'. The West Clare had a few of them, but they were on shorter chassis.

 

The WCR ones were new build to go with the railcars, rather than conversions of old buses, I think. The chassis of them may have been older - I'm away from my Catacombs right now so can't be 100%.

[Garfield]

Oops yes I forgot those, but yes you are right Allen has said he would do these for me in OOn3 if I had a drawing, so the search continues.

 

Colin

 

I'd recommend purchasing 'Modelling the Irish Narrow Gauge' which is a collection of articles by David Lloyd that appeared in Railway Modeller over the years. There are plenty of drawings in it, although I can't recall if the bus coach is amongst them. Either way, it's a useful resource for anyone modelling Irish 3ft. I think the book is out of print now but can still be purchased on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modelling-Irish-Narrow-Gauge-David/dp/090058615X

Edited June 15, 2017 by Garfield

[jhb171achill]

I have a copy of this which I'm happy to lend.

[Mayner]

The WCR ones were new build to go with the railcars, rather than conversions of old buses, I think. The chassis of them may have been older - I'm away from my Catacombs right now so can't be 100%.

 

The 3 WCR railcar trailers ran on converted T&D coach underfames, one of the trailers was restored and used on the preserved C&L at Dromad

[minister_for_hardship]

The WCR ones were new build to go with the railcars, rather than conversions of old buses, I think. The chassis of them may have been older - I'm away from my Catacombs right now so can't be 100%.

 

That would make more sense, they had all the tooling and patterns for bus bodies.

Why not make a body in the new instead of attempting to butcher and re-use the body of a battered old bus which was life expired anyway?

[Colin R]

That was one of my first Irish railway books I got, I meet David a couple of times at exhibitions and his enthusiasm for all things Irish was just amazing, some of the stories where funny others sad, but on the whole he was a joy to be around.

 

A friend of mine went with him to the local pub at lunchtime while he was at the exhibition in Greenwich South London, and apparently while he was there a local Irish Jig band of tin whistles, fiddles and drums just started playing in the pub, wished I had been there to see that.

 

It is all down to him that I got in to the Irish narrow gauge scene in the first place, so yes he was a big influence on my modelling direction.

 

The only Railcar drawings in that book are of the Donegal Railcars, it was mentioned in passing that the West Clair Railway had four similar railcars built with detail differences.

 

In Patrick Taylor book on the WCR it has the drawing for the Railcars, but not of the trailers, it does say that the trailers where build at Inchicore from once again old bus bodies, again the problem is not knowing the source of the bodies, I would guess that there must be some records somewhere, but where do you start to look for them? Would Inchicore still have those records I wonder?

[jhb171achill]

Inchicore wouldn't have the plans now. If they exist at all - and while I might be wrong, I do think I've seen them somewhere - they would most likely be in the IRRS. I think they were built on old T & D chassis, which would make them 27ft long.

 

Inchicore (CIE) built them, so if there was anything of old buses in them, they would (unlike the "bus-coach") have been so heavily altered that comparison with the donor bus would have been rendered irrelevant. Once I get home this afternoon I'll see what I can dig up in the "Catacombs".

[jhb171achill]

The 3 WCR railcar trailers ran on converted T&D coach underfames, one of the trailers was restored and used on the preserved C&L at Dromad

 

Quite right, John, I forgot about the survivor. A visitor can see it there - Michael Kennedy will be pleased to show a visitor around.

[Phil3150]

Colin, the N class were GSR buses built in 1939 and withdrawn from CIE service in the early 1950's. There is a picture of NP68 on the Classic Irish Buses website in the GSR section.

 

Phil

[Colin R]

Thanks Phil,

 

I am wondering about that bus, I see it has a Inchicore body, which means that drawings from that day and age are going to be almost impossible to come across.

 

Colin

[DiveController]

Cyril McIntyre's CIE BUSES 1945-1987 has a reasonable view of the right side of the NP class on p6 and an N on p12.

[Colin R]

Thanks for that, now for the $64,000 question, would anyone know what the length or width of the bus body would have been?

[DiveController]

Yes......... first let me see the money:)

 

 

(PS couldn't resist. I'll PM you the details)

Edited June 21, 2017 by DiveController

[Colin R]

[Phil3150]

 

(PS couldn't resist. I'll PM you the details)

 

I'd be interested in that information too please

[DiveController]

Leyland Lion LT6 GSR were the same dimensions as the LT5As as I understand it

Enough on here so you don;t have to buy the book if you prefer not to

https://books.google.com/books?id=D-hKCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT125&dq=leyland+lt6+history+leyland+bus&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi028vEvs_UAhVHeSYKHfj6CKgQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=leyland%20lt6%20history%20leyland%20bus&f=false

[jhb171achill]

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