Correct restoration of Railwayana (Lineside Signs)

[DiveController]

Hi,

Can anyone who has restored a GNR or GS&WR sign such as a 'No trespassing ' one, advise on how these should be restored. The plan in mind is a wire brush, whatever undercoat comes out of a can that can be purchased in the US,  followed by a main color and some hand painted restoration of the lettering. Any advice in addition/to the contrary or advice on paints/colors?

TIA

Kevin

Edited September 9, 2018 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

Wire brush, yes, then decent black undercoat. Finish is correctly black with white lettering for GSWR, and most GNR. In GNR(B) days, some were white with red lettering, and station and lamp nameboards were yellow with black lettering.

I actually had a very large collection of all sorts of signs years ago, but unfortunately had to sell them.

[DiveController]

So the wire brush is out and we'll sees what's under this..

 

 

Many decades of smoke and soot removed yielded this ......

The base coat seems likely to be a 'red' (lead) oxide with the overlying black with white lettering. The paint for the latter seems more durable than the black

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

Red lead is indeed what they used as a base to prevent rust.

[DiveController]

This is a GS&WR one which I believe to be genuine although the red oxide seems to be scarce underneath. However white lead was often used as a paint pigment/antioxidant agent in pain between the 1930s-1960s in particular. The GSWR precedes this but 'modern' pains have been around since the 1860s so who knows?

 

 

 

The problem is that it initially looked like this and I stripped off what seems to be a much more current latex type white paint, an attempt to restore the sign no dount. The red, green and white stripped easily with a power washer (I got tired of the wire brush) to reveal a much tougher and more adherent white paint coat seeing the first photo above. I'm not sure if this is a color applied to the sign or a white lead undercoat which would likely bond chemically to the iron resulting in durability and conferring rust resistance.

As @jhb171achill states above these were white on black background in the GW&WR era but I'm not sure how long the signs persisted before being replaced. Not likely in the GSR period, I would have thought, did they last through CIE days? And if so were they repainted at some point and into what colors? If there are any photos out there where these can been seen as line side features I'd love to see them

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by DiveController

[WRENNEIRE]

Have this one on my side gate

 

[jhb171achill]

The green / red one looks very well! 

However that would be a paint scheme in private ownership, I would think.

Back to GSWR times, black with white writing. CIE too (and obviously the GSR) used this too, but CIE started reversing the colours in the late 1960s.

[DiveController]

On 9/22/2018 at 6:38 PM, WRENNEIRE said:

Have this one on my side gate

 

THat's the way mine is going right now, Dave. Have you been able to collect on it yet?

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Been told that this was from the Irish network back in 1845 

Anyone any info on it please?

The BY 8 etc refers to the Act being passed in the 8th regnal year of Victoria, and it was Chapter 20, Section 75 of the Act.

40 shillings then would equate to around £250 Brexit pounds.

 

 

 

[DiveController]

Can't comment on the sign but it fits the bill (literally)   RAILWAYS CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION ACT 1845
		CHAPTER XX.

75. If any person omit to shut and fasten any gate set up at either side of the railway for the accommodation of the owners or occupiers of the adjoining lands as soon as he and the carriage, cattle, or other animals under his care have passed through the same, he shall forfeit for every such offence any sum not exceeding forty shillings.

Edited October 7, 2018 by DiveController

[minister_for_hardship]

A retired railwayman, gone to his reward years ago, told me that the men sent out to paint the signs weren't given small brushes to paint the letters. They dipped their thumbs into the paint and painted them that way.

[WRENNEIRE]

Thumbs up for the reply Minister

[WRENNEIRE]

So couple of hours spent cleaning and rust removal

Should I now not restore it Give it a coat of laquer or go the dog and Black & White it?

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

Superb job indeed. It's not Irish, though, or from 1845; it looks to be a standard font used by the Great Western Railway in England.

I've seen many descriptions of tickets for sale on ebay, or railway signs etc in auctions, which are erroneous, either due to lack of knowledge on the part of the seller, or a fraudulent desire to make it appear more "historic" or "quaint". Also, disgracefully, modern replicas passed off as original.

 

The above looks very much original, by the way!

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Superb job indeed. It's not Irish, though, or from 1845; it looks to be a standard font used by the Great Western Railway in England.

I've seen many descriptions of tickets for sale on ebay, or railway signs etc in auctions, which are erroneous, either due to lack of knowledge on the part of the seller, or a fraudulent desire to make it appear more "historic" or "quaint". Also, disgracefully, modern replicas passed off as original.

 

The above looks very much original, by the way!

Yes it is an untitled GWR gate sign.

Oddly enough, CIE produced an enamelled gate sign in the 50s quoting the very same Victorian Act of Parliament...in English AND Irish. Just because it mentions an Act from a certain year doesn't mean it dates from that time.

Edited October 10, 2018 by minister_for_hardship

[jhb171achill]

Correct, Minister. 

Many laws relating to not just railways, but EVERYTHING in Ireland, have their origin in English law before 1921.

[WRENNEIRE]

So stick with the programme people

Never said it was from 1845 but I did say I was looking for a decision as to paint or lacquer it

it is kosher as is this one also picked up recently

 

 

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Any info on this people?

Its 1.5" x 3.5" in old money

[jhb171achill]

I think it's off a staff machine inside a signal cabin. Not 100% but I remember seeing some sort of brass plaque about that size on a tablet instrument on one of the occasions I was dragged into signal cabins by jhbSnr in the 1960s.

[BSGSV]

I think it may be from the starting signal release key mechanism attached to an ETS staff instrument. When you get a release from the signalman in advance to take a staff from the instrument, you can also take the key out, and use it to release the lock on the starting signal lever in the lever frame. 

[ttc0169]

22 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I think it's off a staff machine inside a signal cabin. Not 100% but I remember seeing some sort of brass plaque about that size on a tablet instrument on one of the occasions I was dragged into signal cabins by jhbSnr in the 1960s.

 

3 hours ago, BSGSV said:

I think it may be from the starting signal release key mechanism attached to an ETS staff instrument. When you get a release from the signalman in advance to take a staff from the instrument, you can also take the key out, and use it to release the lock on the starting signal lever in the lever frame. 

 

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 3:18 PM, WRENNEIRE said:

Any info on this people?

Its 1.5" x 3.5" in old money

Photo taken of the staff instrument located in Westport signal cabin, which was for the section to Manulla Jctn,

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Cheers Tom

So I reckon the seller was correct in saying that it had come from an Irish signal box?

[jhb171achill]

Not necessarily. No reason to doubt it, of course, but the Railway Signal Company’s products were used all over Britain too, and their “empire”. I saw such stuff still in use in Myanmar In February.