Sligo, Leitrim and Northern Counties Railway

[Colin R]

It appears that this is a firm favourite railway; well some of my digging is turning up trumps. I have just got back from the Manchester museum of science and industry, some links to the three type of Beyer Peacock 0-6-4T.

I am now going to have to wait until some one get back to process my order for copies of these drawings. I know there is a 7mm scale version from Des, but I think the time has come to try to find some one willing to make them as 4mm scale kits, of course that is easier said than done.

This might get me to go and buy an up to date computer so I can use a CAD based program myself, while these are not the only locos that ran on the SL&NCR, this is a big start to finding out more information about the railway.

Leslie has a RTR model in his range for the line and Alphagraphix have a few items in there card model range, so what ever your model gauge in 4mm scale is, the old SL&NCR could live again.

If a new Heritage line could be set up on the line, I think it could do very well. That said some of the station sites have now been built on , but it is not the end of the world. 

[leslie10646]

Hi Colin

Just a little correction - while I DID a RTR SL&NCR cattle wagon in my Dapol days, it was anything but scale.

The good news is that I do a KIT of the Railway's cattle wagon, which has a nice archaic  look to it:

I've even got some in stock!

Good luck with the project.

Leslie

[David Holman]

Easy (ish) to do in 7mm scale. The Alphagraphix catalogue has card kits of coaches, wagons and buildings that are cheap enough to use as drawings, plus whitemetal wagon chassis and brass underframes for the 6w coaches.

 The SSM kit of the small tanks is an absolute gem, being designed by Adrian Rowlands of Northstar Models. However, with two SLNCR layouts in 7mm scale, maybe the subject is close to being overdone?

A lovely railway, with plenty more options yet, methinks!

[Colin R]

31 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Easy (ish) to do in 7mm scale. The Alphagraphix catalogue has card kits of coaches, wagons and buildings that are cheap enough to use as drawings, plus whitemetal wagon chassis and brass underframes for the 6w coaches.

 The SSM kit of the small tanks is an absolute gem, being designed by Adrian Rowlands of Northstar Models. However, with two SLNCR layouts in 7mm scale, maybe the subject is close to being overdone?

A lovely railway, with plenty more options yet, methinks!

Hi David, very much so I think it could still do with a push in the 4mm scale, you never know may be Mr Rice will do a book on modelling Irish railways etc. 

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, Colin R said:

It appears that this is a firm favourite railway; well some of my digging is turning up trumps.

Jayyysus; one trump is enough!

(........sorry, I'll get me coat.......!!)

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, Colin R said:

It appears that this is a firm favourite railway; ..............

If a new Heritage line could be set up on the line, I think it could do very well. That said some of the station sites have now been built on , but it is not the end of the world. 

Such a thing WAS actually planned, and got past the first approval of funding stage, about 25 years ago!

It would have been a small, but very fantastic line about 2km long, from the shore of Lough Macnean to Belcoo station. For economy, no steam was planned, but approval had been gained to run Railcar "B" (before it ever was scheduled to go to Downpatrick), a "G" class with 2 Midland 6-wheelers (which did often operate on the line when the SLNCR was short of stock), and the ex-NCC railcar No. 1 at Whitehead.

The scheme foundered due to bickering between two of the local landowners over whose lands it would pass.

I still have the paperwork.

"Lough Erne" would be placed, courtesy of a long-term loan by the RPSI, on display in the now-demolished goods shed as a static exhibit.

[Colin R]

5 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Hi Colin

Just a little correction - while I DID a RTR SL&NCR cattle wagon in my Dapol days, it was anything but scale.

The good news is that I do a KIT of the Railway's cattle wagon, which has a nice archaic  look to it:

I've even got some in stock!

Good luck with the project.

Leslie

Hi Leslie I think another read of Mr Sprinks IRRS book is required reading, I am just waiting for the photo book to turn up to complete what I have on the line, unless there is another book on the line I should know about.

As for kits I am sure I will require one or two of those nice looking cattle wagons if the project gets built.

Colin

[Colin R]

40 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Such a thing WAS actually planned, and got past the first approval of funding stage, about 25 years ago!

It would have been a small, but very fantastic line about 2km long, from the shore of Lough Macnean to Belcoo station. For economy, no steam was planned, but approval had been gained to run Railcar "B" (before it ever was scheduled to go to Downpatrick), a "G" class with 2 Midland 6-wheelers (which did often operate on the line when the SLNCR was short of stock), and the ex-NCC railcar No. 1 at Whitehead.

The scheme foundered due to bickering between two of the local landowners over whose lands it would pass.

I still have the paperwork.

"Lough Erne" would be placed, courtesy of a long-term loan by the RPSI, on display in the now-demolished goods shed as a static exhibit.

I wouldn't give up, you never know what is going to happen, the ideal thing would be to buy somewhere like the Collooney station site and start going east from there, if at a later date it becomes possible to built a link to the main line, all well and good, buying the trackbed, is the most important think any group can do.

It is a pity that effort failed, one of my problem's is living over here is not being on site to assist, another good point from my suggestion would be it is not to far for possible volunteers to come from Sligo to help out at weekends.

 

Colin   

[jhb171achill]

The principal enthusiast end of it was coming from the Enniskillen end at that time!

It was deliberately designed to be operable with the smallest possible number of people.

It would be branded as a vintage diesel line, in keeping with the fact that almost all passenger services from the 1940s were peculiar, pioneering, and / or unique railcars.

The line proceeded across the river and agreement had been obtained from the British Army (who had blown the bridge up) to rebuild it. The lakeside terminus was a simple platform with a lock-up ticket hut; to prevent vandalism, a waiting room would be provided on operating days by a six-wheeled coach parked there (an idea later adopted by the DCDR at Inch Abbey).

In Belcoo, agreement had been reached with the owners of the restored station and signal cabin, but as an initial stage the railcar would stop just short of the station to avoid reinstating the level crossing. A one-railcar-length platform was to be provided there, with the adjacent community centre selling tickets and providing car parking and toilets.

One landowner objected; the middle one out of five. Once he had been visited and talked round, one at the Belcoo end, on whose land a maintenance shed & museum would have had to have been built - HE now objected.

He dug his heels in; a couple of years passed, and the funding expired. 

Turned out that these two had local “history”, and anything that one approved of, the other would childishly get “over-sensitive” about, and object to from then on, as a “principle”!

Ho hummmm!

The one that got away.

[airfixfan]

Sounds familiar aware from another project to reopen where 1 or 2 landowners have blocked a serious railway project because of a NIMBY attitude. Another example was where the landowner demanded an extortionate amount for a small but vital strip of land. Offers to take them and key Council officials to Wales to see the potential were also instantly rejected.

[David Holman]

Another issue in these challenging times would be the B word. If any part of the SLNCR were to be restored, then inevitably it could only be in N Ireland, or the Republic, but not cross the border, you'd think.

 Another thought - what about a Suir Valley type project? A miniature version on 2' gauge, with scaled down locos and stock. Dare I say a far better plaything for multi-millionaires than blowing six figure sums annually on lower league football clubs as seems to happen over here.

 However, ain't going to happen.

[RichL]

A model is always going to be a better representation of how it used to be?

[Galteemore]

Good point, Mr H - some B n M stock may be coming up! Can’t think why I’d recommend the Manorhamilton - Dromahair section...... I think I’d reluctantly agree on this one Rich, in terms of a standard gauge project though. One of those lines where it’s almost better to remember it as it was, or use the formation for something like Suir Valley. No preserved SG line could ever do justice to an ancient 0-6-4T dragging all those cattle trucks round tight curves and sharp gradients....and the background was also important - a rural Ireland free of ‘bungalow blight’! 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Galteemore

[Colin R]

As much as it is wishful thinking to see a heritage railway, Rich is right, a model would be far better in this case, having seen what has happen to some of the old light railways here in the UK, I am sure they would want it to comply with current elf and safety and the trains would need to be air braked etc, plus you would have at least one maybe two guys just doing all the paperwork and risk assessments, just to get the project open.  

 

Colin

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, David Holman said:

Another issue in these challenging times would be the B word. If any part of the SLNCR were to be restored, then inevitably it could only be in N Ireland, or the Republic, but not cross the border, you'd think.

 Another thought - what about a Suir Valley type project? A miniature version on 2' gauge, with scaled down locos and stock. Dare I say a far better plaything for multi-millionaires than blowing six figure sums annually on lower league football clubs as seems to happen over here.

 However, ain't going to happen.

Strangely, the border was an advantage, as most of the funding was coming from the cross-border “peace” funding from IFI & ERDF.

Had it not been cross-border, it wouldn’t have qualified.

Brexit could, of course, have presented problems had it come to be, and a “hard border” would probably kill it.

Regarding Suir Valley type schemes, in a country with a market the size of ours, this would sadly be more sustainable financially.

[Brack]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:34 PM, Colin R said:

I am now going to have to wait until some one get back to process my order for copies of these drawings. I know there is a 7mm scale version from Des, but I think the time has come to try to find some one willing to make them as 4mm scale kits, of course that is easier said than done.

I am (slowly) going to be producing some of the Sir Henry class in 4mm scale (16.5mm) for my Dad. However I started, then Dad sent me some rather better drawings (from the IRRS) so I binned what I'd started. I've been a tad busy of late scratchbuilding a garage conversion/extension and kitchen in 1:1 scale (started in November, we did all boarding, plumbing, wiring, plastering, flooring etc ourselves whilst dealing with two little kids and working from home, so progress wasn't that rapid) , but we're almost there with those now.

I have a 3D printer and plans to convert my little milling machine to CNC for producing the chassis. give me a few months, once there is something there I'll be posting it up.

[Colin R]

Hi Brack sounds good please keep us posted

Colin

 

[Colin R]

22 hours ago, Brack said:

I am (slowly) going to be producing some of the Sir Henry class in 4mm scale (16.5mm) for my Dad. However I started, then Dad sent me some rather better drawings (from the IRRS) so I binned what I'd started. I've been a tad busy of late scratchbuilding a garage conversion/extension and kitchen in 1:1 scale (started in November, we did all boarding, plumbing, wiring, plastering, flooring etc ourselves whilst dealing with two little kids and working from home, so progress wasn't that rapid) , but we're almost there with those now.

I have a 3D printer and plans to convert my little milling machine to CNC for producing the chassis. give me a few months, once there is something there I'll be posting it up.

Hi Brack just re read your notes, your drawings you have got, are they the works drawings from Beyer Peacock?

 

Colin Rainsbury

[Irishswissernie]

They are the original Beyer Peacock drawings, some 58 pages in all and the download costs about £60 from the IRRS. I have 2 extra weapons in my arsenal to keep Brack 'focussed' in that one of my grand daughters wants a dog but he doesn't so she has started regular weekly visits to play with my two muts and affords me the opportunity to keep me pressing him.

HC Casserley took 4 views of Sir Henry at Manorhamilton on 22 April 1953 unfortunately for modellers thay are all from the same position!

 

[Galteemore]

Great stuff Ernie! In the Sprinks photo album there is a very useful shot of Enniskillen, taken from the rear inside Manorhamilton works. Most helpful in stuff like bunker detail etc...

[Brack]

I've started a bit today. Getting the compound curves on the smokebox sides and piano front was a nightmare and took ages. I figured the rest of it would be easier so started at this end.

[Brack]

Of course after you've spent an hour getting very subtle, smooth curves right on the smokebox sides, redoing them again and again, carefully tracing them off the works drawings, you find a photo of Lough Gill showing a bunch of angular flat patches all over the place. Could've saved myself a lot of bother!

[Galteemore]

Sorry to hear that Brack ! Looks good so far. Lough Gill is an interesting one - last one of the trio  to keep the smokebox lubricators. Here’s some I took last year of Lough Erne....

[Brack]

Do you know when the smokebox doors were changed?

Obviously I've drawn up the one from the GA, then when I looked at the render I realised every photo I'd seen showed a door flush at the edges and dished in the middle (like on lough erne there, although maybe not with so many dents!). Dad found a photo from 1924 showing the smokebox door as on the drawing, but everything after that shows all 3 with the flush smokebox doors.

I'll have to redraw it!

Luckily with CAD/3D printing editing bits or producing multiple versions is pretty easy.

The trouble with CAD drawing is you zoom in to 8 times bigger than the model will actually be and get perfectionist about little bits of curves or things that wouldnt actually be visible on the finished thing!

Still, it's good to get back in the swing of things.

[Galteemore]

Mid 20s would be my guess, Brack. There is a picture of ‘Enniskillen’ at Sligo with the new door but with lettering on the tank sides. That lettering had all gone by 1930 so the flush doors seem to have come in during the 20s.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Galteemore

[Irishswissernie]

The later smoke box doors look just like the pattern used on the GNRI and as (I think) they undertook most of the heavier SLNCR repairs etc at Dundalk they would have used or made one of their style. 

This photo of Sir Henry had me puzzled for a minute or two as it looked as if the curved bit at the bottom of the smoke box next to the footplate was missing until I realised that its actually a hinged plate with a handrail on the front for pulling it out and its open .

Think I might be pushing my luck if I ask Alan to re-produce a working replica on the 4mm model.

 

[Galteemore]

Sounds correct Ernie. That was certainly the case with the loco chimneys - old photos show a different version. By the 50s all had acquired GN chimneys.

[David Holman]

Lovely stuff!

 

[Colin R]

Hi Guys well my card kits from Alphagraphixs turned up on Saturday so I have been having a play around with them them all, the Engine shed  appears to be a very short version of the one at Manorhamilton, in order to add details of the one at Manorhamilton, I was wondering if anyone had photos of the engine shed at Manorhamilton, I have those that have been published in Neil Sprinks books, but I am looking for the road side of the building and also details of the Enniskillen end of the building.

Regards

Colin Rainsbury 

[Galteemore]

Check out the IRRS photo archive too. Tony Burges’ book on ‘Lakeland railways’ has a good external view. Strictly speaking, Manorhamilton didn’t have a shed. This was the loco works, but it was used for stabling engines in the absence of an appropriate alternative. A photograph from Ernie’s archive may help illustrate what the exterior would have looked like at the Enniskillen end.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Galteemore