jhb171achill

Following up, I can't find any pics yet, but I can now recall what I did see. The green one at Downpatrick has a small snail and small number on cabside, and a black chassis frame. This is incorrect, and an unfortunate example of how incorrect liveries in preservation can be copied as if they had been accurate. The photo I saw, some sonsiderable time ago, and possibly in Jim O'Dea's photos, shows one with green frames, and a large number, but no snail, on cabside. It cannot have worn this for long. I think we can eliminate G602 from this, referring to above.

To answer a few of the questions above.... but first, the list suggests six-wheeler 62M was scrapped in 1964. It actually still exists - that's the one at Whitehead. Yes, ex-Midland six-wheelers were far more numerous at the end of the six-wheel era (the last passenger-carrying ones of this type were withdrawn from public service in 1963). They were considered to be better built and more comfortable - both. Both Inchicore and Broadstone used the very best high quality timber, so build quality was not an issue. Many ex-GNR coaches, though, especially made after 1935, were of decidedly inferior timber. That's one of the reasons many older GNR types survived well into UTA times. Yet, if you look at six-wheel passenger brakes, GSWR types there were more numerous - doubtless because passenger comfort wasn't an issue. The Hattons Genesis range were chosen as they closely resemble several "house styles" the GSWR used. In GSR or CIE livery they fit the bill perfectly - and though the MGWR types outnumbered them vastly, there WERE some ex-GSWR six-wheelers in traffic up to the very early 1960s, i.e. pretty much the end of the "6 wheel era". So, at the end, a typical train of six-wheelers, or mostly of six-wheelers, as might have been used on Youghal summer excursions, but pretty much nowhere else, as the last of the type tended to be sent as secondary stock to Cork - would have had mostly MGWR passenger vehicles and an ex-GSWR passenger brake. Two important takeaway points for modellers. 1. There is not one British design of coach with models made of it, either in RTR or kit form, which resembles closely in design ANYTHING that ran here. The Genesis yokes are a generic design, and happen to reasonably resemble some GSWR types (which is why they were chosen) buit for accuracy, there's really nothing British that even closely fits any Irish line, with the exception of a few LMS types that fit as LMSNCC / UTA equivalents. So, for the era we're talking about, the Genesis stuff was well worth having. An LNER, Great Western or Southern Railway coach in an Irish livery just doesn't cut it. 3D print may well solve this difficulty. In particular, and relevant to the above, MGWR design was so unique that not a solitary thing in Brexitland comes any closer to anything Irish than an ICR looks like a Festiniog Fairlie. 2. On the subject of six-wheelers, we'll have noted that only one type was offered by Hattons in black'n'tan. This raises one point of historical interest, and one of operational interest. (a) Only about six full vans survived the complete withdrawal of all remaining operational six-wheelers in 1963. They were largely used to carry mail bags on the Galway line for a few years more. Several were withdrawn in 1964/5, so it's exceptionally unlikely they were repainted black'n'tan, but at least three were. I have seen pictures of these being hauled by 121s, and in a train of varying types of laminates as late as 1967, but not afterwards. A single one was only officially withdrawn in 1970, but a photo of it a year earlier has it looking very woebegone - they were certainbly go ne before the forst Dutch and BR vans entered service. (b) Following on from the above, it is thus incorrect to run a model of a black and tan six-wheel full brake with any green six-wheelers, as the few that got the new livery only did so AFTER the last of the passenger-carrying ones were withdrawn!

A good question. I'm unaware of th existence, either now or in the past, of any single definitive list which would give such details, but coaches taken out of public use but retained in traffic for internal or departmental use, were re-numbered in a completely different series, with an "A" suffix, so there should have been something. I would not be confident that of such a thing has survived, its date accuracy would be 100%, because you could have a coach set aside for withdrawal, and actually derelict before official withdrawal, and maybe earmarked for scrap but at the last minute resurrected "sure, that one will do!" as a PW van or somethinbg, with just the seats ripped out. Numbers were unrecognisable. So, suppose you've two ex-MGWR carriages,numbered 36 and 37 by the Midland, then 36M and 37M by the GSR & CIE, these could well become 239A and 442A as depertmental vehicles. All in all, not an easy one to pin down. We can just go by whatever individual examples we know of.

Surely it's heading to Belfast. The lights are wrong; that would be the back of the train on that line. The airport is on the down side of the railway. The main road, which that long passenger bridge crosses, is behind the shelters shown on the down side.

I am afraid I do not know any source for this beyond details as shown in Ernie Shepherd's MGWR history and the IRRS-published GSR carriage lists. These give details of withdrawal dates for carriages, but one thing it doesn't give is where a coach was wiothdrawn from PUBLIC service, say, in 1959, but used as a PW department tool van or staff coach for some years afterwards. Perhaps Seagoebox of this parish might be able to elaborate on the latter?

He’s correct on that one. I saw it when I was a young child. Even then I’m not sure it was still in use. Clifton is probably the greatest living expert on Dublin trams.

I’m not sure the de-batteried coaches got the later green livery. I seem to recall pics of them lying up awaiting scrapping in the older green livery (faded so badly you could see GSR maroon underneath!)

Yes, the experimental coach was of that type. A four-wheeled thing with a curved front. jhbSenior x2 designed the carriage part bodywork for units C & D, their resemblance to “Bredin”-type design being obvious. I don’t know if he had anything to do with A & B, which were different. But I don’t believe he ever had many dealings with Dr Drumm himself - he was an intensely private man!

That was their plan, but I doubt if it’s sustainable long term for reasons outlined.

I’ve seen one in green - I think!

The three G601s ran in green, but the G611s entered traffic in orange & black.

Needs to be the correct shade of pink, though.

You're looking at the following criteria, apart from manpower and funding. 1. Proximity to greater Belfast or Dublin areas, or Cork at an absolute stretch. With Downpatrick in the former category, we're now just looking at Dublin. So counties Dublin, Meath or Wicklow; maybe Kildare. 2. Good road / parking access and proximity to main roads. Access needs also to allow a low loader to bring rolling stock in. No use if it's down some country boreen. 3. Planning permission for staff and public car parking, maintenance sheds / covered accommodation for stock. As Whitehead and Downpatrick will attest, it's a fool's game to leave rolling stock outdoors in all weathers. 4. Sufficient length of line to give the public something like a journey; half a mile is useless, 10 miles is too long to be economically viable in this country, DCDR's 2.5 miles is about right from the point of view of fuel economy when operating; and ease of maintenance. Double it to 5 miles, you double the coal or diesel used, but you won't get away (in this country, anyway) with doubling the fare. 5. Somewhere to go to. A train ride from a small unremarkable rural halt to a buffer stop in a field is useless, as far as sustainability is concerned. It has to GO somewhere. Downpatrick has Inch Abbey. One scheme considered in the past, Trim to Athboy, had a heritage town near a motorway connecting with another in which there is a fmous castle. That sort of thing. As enthusiasts, we're all good at the "ideas"; the "what-ifs"; and what WE think would be interesting. But "normal" people - who pay the bills (enthusiasts won't) do not think the way we do. Cold hard reality must always take precedence over "it would be nice to preserve XYZ". As a diehard, hardcore, proper nerd-level enthusiast myself, but who spent 25+ years dealing with day-to-day management practicalities of both the RPSI and DCDR, I have seen chapter and verse, plus the full boxed set, on all of this!

In MY book, vastly superior to it! (Apart from the “lifting” bit…..)!

”Yeah, I saw one in Mallow on Tuesday like that, first I’d seen. Very bright, isn’t it?” ”Ye see they’ve dropped the “B” from the number. I wonder does that mean the “A” class will just start with “1”?” ”Tell ye wan thing, I can’t see any o’them air-conditioned super trains, or whatever they call ‘em, coming down here!” ”Wonder what it’s like IN an air-conditioned train? Is it some sort of heating? And ye can’t open the windows in those things, apparently…” ”No idea….. what I’m wondering, is what’s for dinner!”