Mol_PMB

All seems to be working perfectly now, many thanks. I think one of my posts yesterday evening has vanished (may have fallen victim to the migration or could be some other issue entirely), but never mind, I'll write it again. Thanks again for the migration.

This NLI photo is dated 1958 and therefore these vans are definitely from the first batch: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303852 Four vans are visible, all with roofwalks that have continuous planks the full length of the van (not the same as the IRM model). Two vans have ladders on the near corner. The other two do not. When the first batch of vans were built, did some vans have ladders and others not? Or did they have just one ladder, and whether we see it depends on the orientation of the van in the photo? This is a question I have not been able to answer definitively. I do think more ladders were added later. All the vans have a vertical rib below the middle of the doors, which can be seen quite clearly here including a diagonal brace. There appears to be a handle and a horizontal rod to the chute hatch so I think this is associated with opening the chute door. It's very likely that this arrangement was repeated on both sides, since we can see it on all 4 vans here. (note for comparison: GSR bulk grain vans had a ladder on one side, and the chute door release on the opposite side). All these vans have a 4-shoe brake arrangement, with the brake blocks outboard of the wheels. This arrangement was used on Bulleid triangulated underframes under many types of wagon (corrugated open, H van, flat etc) but was superseded by the 2-shoe arrangement. Of these four vans, all retain their side doors but they are now sealed up. All the vans have the classic H-van sides with a grid of bolt heads. I believe these were used to secure internal shelving on the H vans, but would be redundant on a grain hopper. In my mind this is circumstantial evidence that the grain hoppers were all converted from H vans, rather than built new. This photo probably represents the as-built state of most of the first batch. Some or all may have been modified later.

Ah, OK, that's not a topic I have studied in detail as I don't have any locos in that livery. They may, or may not, be the same as the black livery A class which I do need to do the artwork for. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are two different fonts used, one by EMD as-delivered, and one by Inchicore when they were repainted (and gained their roundels)

No, not yet. Which livery? Green? Black? BnT? Which class? I have very recently done some artwork for green A11, as a trial. Top of this sheet. I am experimenting with using partially translucent white so the green underneath shows through to give an Eau-de-Nil effect. It may or may not work. With all my loco numbers, I'm creating the numbers and letters individually to match the CIE shapes - I'm not just using a standard font. It takes time! I've done the green numbers for the E class, and the supertrain-livery white/black and white numbers, but every set of digits is a different shape! Even white numbers for the black E class are a different shape from the green numbers on a silver E class...

I'm presently modelling a flour mill so thoughts are turning to the grain deliveries. I'm spoilt for choice really, with IRM producing the CIE design grain hopper, JM Design and now Enda producing the GSR/Ranks design, and Provincial Wagons producing a GNR van that can be converted to their design of grain hopper. I'm intending to have some examples of all of these. Possibly also some grain containers. Recently I've been looking in more detail at the CIE grain hoppers which were based on the H van design. There are some comments on the forum already about some of the variations of these. I may have answered some questions but uncovered some other queries! I'll jot down my thoughts in this thread. Pender & Richards (1967) say: Bulk Grain Wagons. The three groups are conversions from standard wagons, the doors of which have been welded up. They have roof fillers and are of the bottom gravity discharge type. They work over various parts of the system. Their wagon listing includes: · 23901-23950 [total 50], Bulk Grain introduced 1956. Ex series 17222 vans. · 23967-23996 [total 30], Bulk Grain introduced 1961. Ex series 18862 vans. · 25021-25040 [total 20], Bulk Grain introduced 1963/4. Ex series 18862 vans. This indicates that all three batches were conversions. The 17222 and 18862 series H vans were very similar, with only subtle details such as the position of worksplates to distinguish them. The 17222 series was introduced in 1953/4 and the 18862 series in 1958/62. All were unfitted, but there were some variations in the arrangement of brake rigging (2 or 4 blocks). Regarding liveries, all would have been grey originally. The first batch would definitely have carried the flying snail logo. The last batch would have probably had the roundel applied when converted. The middle batch would have been in the transition period but probably carried the snail. From 1970, some received the brown livery with roundel. Irish Railway Models datasheet (2024) says: Distinguished from standard H vans by the presence of walkways and manholes on the roof, along with bodyside access ladders and an unloading chute on the underside, 56 of these wagons were produced by Inchicore in 1955. However, the level of traffic called for several standard H vans to be converted to bulk grain wagons over the coming years, with 29 being reconstructed in 1961 and a further 20 following in 1964. The IRM models are numbered as follows: · Snail livery: 23901 / 23928 / 23934 (i.e. all the 1956 batch) · Grey roundel livery: 23945 / 23952 / 23956 (i.e. at the end of the 1956 batch) · Brown roundel livery: 25027 / 25033 / 25039 (i.e. all the 1963/4 batch) Although they tell basically the same story, these two accounts are not entirely consistent in the quantities involved, nor whether the first batch were built new or converted. The number series 23951-23956 is vacant in the Pender & Richards listing so there might have been 56 in the first batch - some of the IRM models are numbered in this extended range. Looking at photos I have identified a number of detail differences among these bulk grain hoppers. They include: Ladders - 0, 1 or 2 per wagon Roof catwalks - at least two different styles Hopper door release mechanism - at least two types Side doors - sealed, or removed and plated over Brakes - 2 shoe or 4 shoe handbrakes In some cases there is a pattern to be discerned, in other cases there are some mysteries!

Fairly soon I will have some carriages to paint in CIE 1950s light green. I am looking for people's recommendations for a commercial enamel paint shade (e.g. Precision, Humbrol, Railmatch) that is an acceptable match for this. I'd prefer to avoid mixing something up each time. What looks right? What is a good match to the IRM A42 model? Though I confess that is a bit bright to my eyes but weathering will tone it down. I was also hoping to have some green IRM Park Royals by now, but hey-ho. I appreciate that greens are notoriously hard to judge, and photos of real coaches and locos with different degrees of weathering and fading can show quite different shades even if the paint was from the same tin. Precision CIE green is definitely a darker shade and probably the 1940s green. Railmatch Malachite is about the right brightness but to my eyes is a bit too blue. Phoenix offer two different shades of SR Malachite though. The LNER had two shades of loco green - Doncaster and Darlington - are either of those any good for CIE light green? Below are Precision's 2 shades of malachite and 2 shades of LNER green. Of course there may be many other options. Many thanks, Mol

I seem to have spent an inordinate time on the carriage roof today. It's still not finished, but I've had enough for the day! I made life difficult for myself by adding the lavatory water tank, which was made from offcuts and is dimensionally in accordance with the diagram, which was the best info I had to work with apart from a few distant photos. The etch fret that had surrounded the carriage end etches proved useful for a curved shape so the tank ends matched the roof curve! Also I added a representation of the gas pipework, which I confess is not as neat as Eoin's but it will do! I had to make up the layout as I couldn't find any good photos of the roof layout of a lav compo with water tank and gas lighting. I also added the brackets on each side which I assume were once used for destination boards. There's still some cleaning up to be done underneath, and then detail to add to the ends - gas pipework at one end and communication cord apparatus at the other. Those aren't provided for in the kit but I have found adequate photos to make them up from oddments. One of the things I've always found fascinating about the Irish 6-wheelers is the variety of 'gubbins' on the roof. Gas lamps and plumbing or electric lamps and wiring, ventilators, water tanks, birdcage lookouts, skylights, rainstrips, destination board brackets etc. And almost every one is different from the next. I'm looking forward to recreating that appearance in my railtour/excursion set.

Neat work on the flatbottom point blades!

Many thanks for the summary. Hopefully we can get the brake third over the line, espexcially since it's likely to have common parts with the third. The last one of these brake thirds in service was 21M, which was a regular on the Cahirciveen line in the late 1950s (latterly diesel-hauled) and received light green livery with waist line. It survived in traffic until at least 1961, being listed in the CIE carriage register that year. There are quite a few photos of it behind a silver C class or with a tin van, a long way from its original MGWR territory, as shown in these IRRS photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253243113 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253392335 10M and 35M also survived into the late 1950s, as seen here in Ernie's photos, showing off the 1940s dark green lined livery and the 1950s plain green livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/50659862117 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/55007876543 Several entered departmental service including 216A which was often photographed at Mallow in the 1960s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511503484

Thta's looking great - it captures the look of the prototype well. I keep meaning to get one from Des. You should cut off the old brake hand lever from the underframe though - the brake operation was from a wheel inside on a brake van. Photo from Fred Dean and Jeremy Chapter, one pic of each side:

I haven't picked up the soldering iron today, but I've still been making progress. I've been doing some transfer artwork for a variety of current and near-future carriage and wagon projects, like these: And these (including some artwork destined for Enda @Past-Avenue here): Where the lettering is white to go on a coloured background, I normally get 2 layers of white printed so that it's opaque. Some of the loco and carriage lettering and lining in this lot should be eau-de-nil, so I'm expermenting with just one layer of white and hoping the green shows through a bit. After a bit of wear and tear the real eau-de-nil seemed to vary in colour a great deal. This may work or it may not; if it doesn't I'll have to see if I can get Steve at Railtec to do them in the proper colour. There are also some experimental transfers to represent etched window glass ('ladies' and 'smoking' as well as 'smoking' labels which should end up looking like this when applied to the inside of the windows - have I got the colours right? I've decided that my green A class (A42) is going to be rechristened A11 (011 being one of the few I have travelled behind), and will therefore look a bit like this (Ernie's pic): Then this afternoon one of my model railway friends invited himself round so there was a bit of a rush to reassemble Quartertown Mill so that I could have a train running. This was successful although I think the track needs cleaning more thoroughly. So here's what it looks like at present: Lots more still to do on both the layout and the current rolling stock projects, but it's keeping me entertained!

Thanks! I’ve got a couple of weeks off during the xmas shutdown so it’s nice to be able to focus on some making! I think I may get to start one more project before going back to work on the 5th. The SSM coaches have a ‘bogie and a half’ arrangement. I have yet to see how well it works in practice but it is probably an easier option than Cleminson-style linkages. it will be interesting to compare with the Alphagraphix approach when I add an MGWR carriage to my little passenger train.

Looks great! It doesn’t take much but makes a massive difference. Good work.

Only half a day at the workbench today as I went out walking with a friend this frosty morning. I have completed the bodyside detailing and a bit on the ends: Because I'll be painting this in the extremely plain 1950s green livery, I thought I might as well fit all the door furniture now. The door bangers are an addition of my own. The undergubbins has also been etch primed.

What a super picture! Does your train have a bar car, or have they paused to take refreshment in the hotel? All the best for 2026!

I've just put this SSM GSWR coach kit on my watch list, although I suspect it will be more economical for someone based in Ireland. The starting price is fair, and these aren't usually available individually so it's a good opportunity to get just the one rather than a whole rake of six: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236556240524

If you want to stick with the 1990s era, then I think the more interesting options would be: PW yard. Not just ballast hoppers but rails/track panels on bogie flats, spoil wagons, maybe an excavator on a lowmac. Wagon repair facility. I considered a layout based on a small part of the Limerick wagon works. Any type of wagon can turn up. Cement-based industry. In a small scale, probably something that receives cement and produces cement-based products (breeze blocks, lintels, roofing sheets, concrete sleepers?) which can also go out by train. Food-based industry as mentioned above. Molasses tanks and containers. Even a chocolate factory (e.g. Rathmore). See if you can get hold of the February 2019 IRRS journal, which has a detailed illustrated article on Private Sidings on Irish Railways. That's where I found my inspiration for my Quartertown Mill mini-layout.

An excellent write-up of an excellent year. Well done and thank you! I look forward to the forthcoming Irish model deliveries and the new announcements. And I'll get my Palvan order placed . Plenty of exciting hints about new tooling, hopefully some of it Irish. So will it be a D, E or G class, or even a variety of J? All the best for 2026!

By the 1990s a lot of the smaller yards and depots had been closed, with freight handled at fewer, larger facilities. Remaining smaller facilities tended to be dedicated to one traffic. However, there was still a good variety of freight on the network and stations like Ennis would handle several different traffics. Foynes was still active I think. Are there any specific traffics you want to include? I.e. what wagons have you got? Another option would be to model a repair workshop like part of Limerick or Inchicore. Or a PW yard?

Excellent. I think the third has enough support and is happening, and I hope that commonality of parts with the brake third might encourage that too. I’ve got my name down for one of each.

Now for the final installment of the 6-wheel vans - the other gangwayed vans. In addition to the three elliptical-roofed vans, the 1961 carriage register lists the following five 6-wheel vans fitted with gangways: 116 1070, 1077, 1078 116 would originally have been a diagram 88 van dating from 1887, and I have found no photos of this van so I can't comment on whether it was modernised. The other three gangwayed vans were from the last batch of diagram 90 vans built in 1908, numbers 1070-1079. Latterly black and tan, 1077 became a celebrity when it formed part of the 1964 all-Ireland railtour rake, and mush have been photographed hundreds of times! Here are some views from Ernie showing several different angles including the panel detailing and the roof. Apart from the gangways, this was a standard diagram 90 van with rounded beading on the upper part of the side, and a high arc roof: It's actually hard to see the gangways on any of those photos, but you can make out the top of the faceplate and the hangers in this photo of the same train by Roger Joanes: 1078 was identical but remained in light green livery until withdrawal in 1963. Again, we can't see the gangways in this view but their presence is confirmed by the carriage register details. I haven't found a photo of 1070. For now, that's all I've got on the prototype topic - I'd welcome contributions and corrections from others. I'm intending to build a model of a diagram 88 van in late 1950s condition, and will post the results here in due course. But for now I'll stop waffling on about 6-wheel coaches until the Alphagraphix kit for an MGWR third arrives on my workbench, at which point you might expect another similar thread.

Thank you JHB! You're now getting much better at the black art though - and practice makes perfect. When Alphagraphics have activated their shrink ray, I'll have an MGWR third to build for this little train - are you going to get one too?

Yesterday there was more progress on the tank wagon body and chassis, and on the layout scenery, but most of today has seen the battle opened on a new front. Having written a diatribe about GSWR 6-wheel lavatory composites it was time to put words into action, and build the SSM kit I bought secondhand earlier this year. https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/19720-gswr-6-wheel-lavatory-composites/ I have taken a lot of useful advice and guidance on constructing the model from this thread, for which I am very grateful. Thank you @murrayec for such a detailed and well-illustrated build thread, which really helped as the instructions only have a few diagrams. In some places Eoin had a better assembly sequence too. https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8430-gswrgsrcie-six-wheeled-coaches-ecmbuild-in-gauge-oo/ After a good day of effort, I have completed the 'bogies' and the underframe, with all their details. Generally, it has gone together well with no major challenges, and it's much less fiddly than the tank wagon chassis. Construction so far has been entirely with 145 degree solder, and the result feels surprisingly stiff and strong. I didn't have a problem with clearances between the brakes and the gas tanks, because I didn't fit brakes to the middle axle. Neither did the GSWR! Inchicore obviously wasn't reading the SSM instructions. Hopefully I'll tackle the body tomorrow, and then I'll have a look at the left-over bits which include at least one 7mm scale part that surely doesn't belong!

Super, many thanks for adding that picture to the thread. It shows what they looked like 20 years earlier than any of the photos I had found. Both the diagram 88 vans still have their birdcages and full side panelling. We can see the skylights and gas lights on the roof. Also of interest is the vent in the lower side at the near end of the van (right edge of photo) which is shown on the diagram but not on any of the later photos. I suspect there was a dog box or similar here.

Ah, I know Paul but I didn't know he made those. 19.2mm across faces, I assume? I made one myself out of a block of brass which is good for plain axles but not ideal for powered ones.