jhb171achill

If the all-encompassing GSR loco grey was dull, the LLSR all-grey was worse! The CDR used all-black for carriages at one time, followed by black with cream upper panels - very funereal. The LLSR was, I think, cherry red and white rather than salmon pink; perhaps an inspiration to Forbes on the CDR when he introduced their red and CREAM in 1932. I'm not sure of salmon pink - that's more likely to have been recorded (IF it was) from an old withdrawn thing that had faded to that. I'm away at a family reunion and will check for sure when I get home tomorrow. I'm sure there was another earlier livery too - I'll check.

Excellent - and is that old coach one of those Ratio ones? (Looks great...!)

Indeed, sir; my mistake entirely. Used to be as far as Whitehead, now double just short of there. Never double Whitehead - Larne at all.

.................I've slides and photos showing the roundel clearly in white, and clearly in straw yellow, not tan,................ Exactly. The white is self-explanatory. The "straw yellow" is the white weathered with brake dust; but white underneath. And there wasn't a tan version. White lettering, numerals and so on, on anything railway-related, never stayed pure white for long - look at the white line above window level on black'n'tan coaches - and they were regularly washed, while ferts and other wagons were virtually never washed..... City buses had roundel transfers which were off-white, incidentally, with white lining round them. All railway wagon roundels in "brown" days were initially white, but obviously would become dirty over time.

Update. Contact has been made with Cyril Fry's daughter, who is now a very elderly lady, but fully "with-it" and very enthusiastic about the whole scheme. Fry's collection of railway artefacts including one very nice loco nameplate is safe in storage and in the hands of the local authority. Other small exhibits are being sourced. Contact has also been made with several people who visited the house in Churchtown and saw the layout operating. Fry's own photographic collection has been made available through the good offices of the current owner of both the collection and its copyright. Fry was not the best photographer in the world, but some of his stuff is of great historic interest. Most is black and white, and while he took many colour slides in the late 1950s onwards, the film he used hasn't stood the test of time well, and while some of his images have been photoshopped to an adequate standard, many are way beyond repair; I spent two full weekends going through the entire collection a few years ago. His models are going to be professionally evaluated in three categories: (1) Those fit to operate with little or no encouragement. (2) Those which should be operable, but will require significant work first. (3) Those which operationally are a hopeless case, and will be displayed in glass cases instead. It is considered that ripping Fry's handmade motors out of them to put modern ones in, would be pure vandalism! Better to make a working replica and keep the original, if it's really that bad. It must be remembered that these are antique models, and irrespective of age, some have already clocked up huge mileages.Not all may be aware that when the layout was operating in Malahide Castle, few if any of the model locomotives to be seen operating on any one day were actually Fry's. Thus, the intention in the new building is that there will be a large newly built layout in 00 with a selection of Irish trains; these will be the ones that will clock up huge mileages, operating 8 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. It would be unrealistic to expect an old model to do that, in in curatorial terms, irresponsible. Instead, parallel to the 00 gauge layout, selected Fry models will make occasional forays on a separate track (well, different gauge!), while others will be on display with, hopefully, pictures of the originals in action, and a brief history of each. More news as it arises.

Prior to 1925 or so, there was a lot more - a good deal of the Sligo line, and all of the Galway line, for example. Today, it's Larne, Bangor to Bray, M3 Parkway, Maynooth, Connolly - tunnel - Heuston - Cobh & Midleton, and that's about it! The main routes now long gone were ALL single - Waterford - Mallow, North Kerry, Limerick - Sligo - Enniskillen, Dundalk - Enniskillen - Derry, Portadown - Cavan - Mullingar, the Derry Road, the BCDR, West Cork; and the existing South Kerry and Limerick Jct - Waterford - Rosslare were always single. One double track narrow gauge line, and one only, of course: the Cork - Blackrock part of the CBPR. The Crosshaven extension was always single.

Important one there, Sam - the early NIR livery was maroon and a very light grey, never red and cream. The grey was not unlike what BR had on upper parts of coaches in the "BR Blue" era. For the maroon, it was a pretty standard one - a shade darker than LMS "red". The UTA green was a good deal darker than BR loco green,or closer to home CIE green of either shade. It was a totally different shade to anything the (British) Southern Railway ever used. The closest you'll get to UTA green is the shade applied to the RPSI's Whitehead set - this is actually based on UTA green. In terms of the posy-1970 NIR livery, the maroon remained the same as on railcars and steam-hauled stock, but the blue was a completely new shade. It has been accurately reproduced on the restored NIR 80 class set at Downpatrick. Incidentally, for the info of the world in general, this superb restoration job at Downpatrick has exactly the right shades of maroon and blue for the NIR "1970 Enterprise" livery, lining and all. The only error is on the roofs. At the ends, the roof curved parts are painted maroon. This is only correct for the front of a driving cab, not the gangway ends of either the power car, intermediates, or driving trailers. These bits should be roof grey.

Eoin, you've made me run out of smelling salts now, and the drooling is becoming a problem....................................................................!

Perfect, Fran - as always!!!! As I mentioned before, my layout environment of 1955-65 may have to be compromised with some of these things - too good to miss! Why couldn't CIE have introduced them in 1961!!

Another observation. The running numbers carried on the ends were unique as far as CIE stock was concerned then. No other stock had end numbers. However, initially, they had numbers on the sides (first left hand panel, I think - possibly other end), but as doors were switched and swopped, it tended to be on the ends only. The CIE logo on the illustration above appears to be tan. While some types of wagons had dual-coloured roundels (tan surround, white letters) when grey, no brown wagon of any sort carried these. Logos were always, from the outset, all-white on anything painted brown. That's an interesting one, Fran! Must have been a one-off. And I can't help feeling that it was a short lived one. I don't know what the initial loading for these things was, but could it be that the one with the markings you show was restricted to a smaller weight? If they were all 48, that large number's a new one to me - as you'll have seen from photos. I would have been highly surprised if you hadn't perused photos, given your superbly accurate rendition of everything else you've put your hand to! Keep it up!

Ah - I misread the title of your post. 1950s - very different. Blue 4.4.0s on Enterprise, and GNR coaching stock all brown, except some (but not all) steel-panelled post-1954 stock which was navy and cream. UTA stuff dark green with older (pre 1963) "Red Hand" roundel. If you cover 1949-54 or so, a decreasing number of maroon NCC coaches still about.

Mostly, the CIE roundels were on the second panel door from the left, as you're looking at them. they were all like this when new. By degrees, they tended to turn up on any of the middle 4 doors, though I am unaware of a CIE roundel ever appearing on one of the two end doors, either end. The illustration above shows one with a roundel on the fifth door along; this, while quite possible, was much less usual. I don't particularly recall seeing one in this place myself. After 1987, when CIE became IE, and the "set-of-points" logo was introduced, it was not applied to ferts at all - and indeed, was not applied to almost all wagons. they just repainted them plain brown. In these times, the reddish background to numberplates and painted numbers, so often seen now, wasn't there - plain brown. In pre-'87 days, an occasional fert, perhaps just repaired, would have had no logo, but most did. It is worth mentioning that now, when bogies emerge from Limerick, little bits and pieces on them are green, red, black, whatever; they don't paint them all-brown, in fact they probably don't paint them at all. Each component part is just the colours of whatever they've been when taken out of their Bachmann boxes. In CIE days, bogies were all painted brown. The once-blue Taras, the once-duck-egg blue with black bogie shale wagons, all became plain brown at first repaint. The illustration above shows "48 TONS" in large writing on one. I never saw that - was this an exception, or is it just on the illustration? It certainly was never a normal part of the markings on them. I never saw it at all anywhere, and the font of the "48" is not one used by CIE.

No, not at all. The black'n'tan started appearing in earnest in late 1962, but was really making itself known from 1963 on. It had been trialled in 1961. So BnT is fine in your era. The "supertrain" version (all orange / tan, with broad black stripe covering window level, orange roofs etc., was first introduced in 1972, though Cravens would never carry it. Only locos and air-con stock. So, through the era you're looking at, mid 60s, you have this, in terms of visitors from CIE to the north (UTA): A class: Some black, some black with yellow panel on end, some black'n'tan; mostly to be seen on goods. 121 class: 1962-5 - grey and yellow, but gradually becoming BnT; I think the last one in grey was about 1967. 141 class: never anything other than BnT (until "supertrain" era post-72). 101 class: a very. very rare animal indeed north of Dublin; indeed most of their activity was always in a rough triangle Cork - Limerick - Waterford. However, the occasional visit north, usually on the goods, would have seen a green one head for Porteeedown and then probably go back to Dublin. I am unaware of any 101 ever making it to Belfast, and the only pics I've ever seen of them on the GNR are taken between Dublin and Dundalk - it's possible they mightn't even have got north of there. An A class made it to Monaghan at least once, while BnT 141s with CIE stock made it onto the Derry Road during 1963. As far as I'm aware, no C ever went north of Dundalk, though i stand to be corrected on that. In your era, CIE coaching stock was a mix of let's say 10 BnT coaches to every one still in green. The green used was what was applied to the TPO at Downpatrick and G611 before they were as badly faded as they are now, or the diner in Cultra. The RPSI is not known for correct liveries, unfortunately, (and nor is Cultra....don't start me!) but that one's about right. The loco-hauled "Enterprise" was a mix of ex-GNR coaches now in CIE livery, and things like laminates or Park Royals. Cravens would appear in the mix - but never a full rake - until the troubles were in full swing, when they went back to laminates as they didn't want to risk having good carriages blown up in the north. The UTA / NIR "Enterprise" went through phases. The GNR AEC railcars were in use in the 60s on this service. the last steam one was about 1963, as far as I remember - I saw it (with UTA ex-GNR stock). The railcars were all in UTA dark green (not unlike what the Whitehead Mk 2 set has today) by about 1962/3, having been repainted out of the GNR navy & cream. Next, the new 70 class started on the Enterprise. These were what would become the familiar maroon and light grey - but this was still UTA days; NIR, on their inception some 18 months later, would use this as their standard livery until the maroon and blue appeared on the new Hunslet-drawn Enterprise in 1970. For a while in the mid 60s, some of the old GNR AEC sets were repainted in a mid-blue and creamcolour system, with silver roofs, for the Enterprise. This was very short lived, as were several other "regional" liveries used by the UTA for a year or two. Most stuff, of course, was dark green. A bit of a clumsily put together account, but I hope it helps.

Sam, if you're looking at the time when NIR was coming into existence, you've just missed the last GNR locos. NIR started off with one of the Sligo tanks, restricted to York Road and docks, and nothing else but Jeeps. A RTR "Jeep" is long overdue, but with such a small market probably not likely to appear any time soon. All varieties of NIR railcars of the day are best scratchbuilt, though reasonable approximations can be made by serious kitbashing of some British types of railcars. It all depends on your wallet, available time and skills. You will find the community here to be of immense help with every possible aspect of railway modelling, and along the way you will gain great inspiration from some of the amazing layouts you'll see scenes from here. If you go back just before NIR, say mid 60s, you've got the Derry Road and Warrenpoint branch as inspiration, both with superb scenery, and a few GNR locos still bumbling about. U and UG classes will predominate, perhaps a D class 0.6.0, and of course the occasional 4.4.0 still - though no longer blue! Either ("S" class) in lined UTA black, or covered with such a layer of filth and grime that virtually no blue is visible at all..... For loco hauled stock, it you can get something to resemble a Jeep - some sort of British Stanier tank with surgery carried out - you can use a number of standard RTR Hornby / Bachmann carriages of LMS parentage, just repainted either UTA green or the early NIR loco hauled livery of all maroon, with a 3" light grey line at waist level. So there's your Sunday School specials to Portrush covered.

Absolutely top class as always, Jason.

PM me, sayhall, I may be able to help.

I’ve a few dozen of these from the last half dozen years or so. Can meet in Dublin or occasionally Belfast. Price: zero europounds.

As described - my dad had it. Initials “H.H.” and “J Mc V” scored on it. £30 / €35 ......and whoooo hoooo! The pics are the right way up!

It would be common enough, especially on local workings, to see engines working tender first......

Show us the actual track plan you have at present and suggestions can follow!

No official announcement yet, but I am aware of what's going on in the background. Funding is available and budgets finalised. Archictects, designers and others are working on it as we speak. A meeting this day last week started the ball rolling with all of the various advisors and interested parties planning the practicalities of a way forward. Email exchanges in the last few days have finalised further matters, and all concerned with putting the whole thing in place will meet with local councillors shortly. While it's impossible to be certain, the plan is that it will be substantially advanced on the ground next spring.

Just thought of another thing.... if your model is based in UTA times (1958-65 for the Derry Road), while in reality highly unlikely, it is certainly possible that a UTA coach of ex-NCC origin might have appeared there. There are a number of British LMS wooden-bodied ready-to-run coaches which are like types the NCC had - so a coat of UTA green and away ye go!

Superb stuff. How much longer before the Greenway Lycra Taliban get their mitts on it?

Tony - SSM do a kit of a K15 and a matching brake 3rd, in brass. I know they're not ready to run an that your main emphasis is on freight (Leslie's GNR vans, open wagons and cattle wagons will be an essential buy). And typically, a train in Omagh would have more likely had a wooden panelled brake third, not a steel-sided one. I seem to recall seeing several RTR British coaches which while not at all suitable for purists, with a coat of brown paint and some SSM transfers, would make a reasonable approximation to some GNR stock. I'll try to remember which! Two carriages would do you well. If IRM, or anyone, ever do a RTR 2-car AEC set, there's another for you. A set in navy and cream, and one in ITA green would look amazing! Glad you've got the GNR locos. I suppose an appeal now and again for anyone selling one might get you a third for a bit of variety - another 0.6.0 maybe.

That's very nice, Tony, and it shows the value of perseverance and thinking it through thoroughly. It's better to try different things, as you have done, rather than settle for something which could be better. Despite the available space, which like in my own case is limited, those are very "flowing" curves and the whole thing looks great. You had said it would be "wagons only" but a set-up like that would certainly allow future inclusion of the sort of two-coach train seen on Derry - Strabane - Omagh locals, and indeed on Enniskillen trains in latter days. I've seen photos at Fintona Jct. of the "main line" train heading from Enniskillen to Foyle Road, consisting of a U class and just two carriages. Your goods yard also looks great - the buildings are superb too. The curved sidings seem to fit in perfectly. Looking good!