jhb171achill

I meant to say, explain what a "sticky" is (not a stick!!)...

Alan / Garfield Excuse my techno ignorance, but explain what a "stick" is and I'll gladly attempt it! :-) For a company the size of the GSWR, there is a surprising lack of detail about liveries they used. As far as can be ascertained, and I have more detailed notes about this SOMEWHERE, their locos were the colour of No. 36 prior to 1870. As far as I recall from notes I have, this was applied to all locos, goods and all. After about 1870 or so, they started painting them all in the livery seen on No. 90 at Downpatrick, which itself was taken from a large scale model on display in London at the HQ of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers. This is a dark olive green (likely to be the same used by the CBSCR) with red, black and light green lining and black background to the numberplates. There is one inaccuracy on 90, which is a maroon edged running plate instead of brown. I have to hang my head and take sole blame for that myself, as I gave incomplete information to those painting it!! It seems that about 1885/90, the lining changed to black and cream, but base colour was the same. From 1895 onwards, the GSWR painted all locos glossy black with red lining, though it is probable that quite a few were still kicking about in green for some time. In my grandfather's day in Inchicore, the famous battleship grey appeared, as an economy measure. It was probably the same as what wagons were painted, or close, as the GSWR painted wagons a colour which was variously described as black or dark grey. More of that later; I'm preparing a lengthy post on wagon liveries for here - maybe get it done later today. I have a large scale model wagon made by my grandfather when he was in Inchicore and it has the actual paint. I'll try to post a pic of it some time, and it will be eventually going on display in the DCDR Museum. Going back to locos, I reckon that a layout based on the GSWR any time between 1880 and 1910 could reasonably have locos of different liveries - green with both types of lining in the earlier part, and later on green on some, new black on others. What would make a very unique model would be something based on, say, some part of Tralee - Limerick - Sligo about 1930, with a few ex-GSW and ex-WLWR locos in GSWR lined black, getting a bit tatty looking, and a couple of brand new grey locos! Stretch artistic licence, and there's still one WLWR 4.4.0 in maroon... OK, now I'm rambling. Back to the point: No. 90 was indeed a type of 0-6-4T - though I believe that such an arrangement has various definitions... 0.6.0T + 4? But, yes, that's what it was in essence. Carriage portions on railmotors on all Irish companies that had them were in the standard carriage livery of the day. 90's would have been the deep reddish browny "crimson lake" to be seen today on ex-GSWR 1097 and 836 at Downpatrick. The DCDR's policy is accurate liveries (though some older stock has yet to be updated!) and the colour on these carriages is exact. Something at the back of my mind tells me it was unlined - at least for some of the time, but I'd have to check. Weshty - 90 is basically in working order but she is currently on display in the new carriage gallery (and is thus very accessible to modellers). She needs a few minor adjustments though, and is out of her boiler ticket. The work programme for the coming year as far as steam locos are concerned is geared towards O & K No. 3, so that both O & K's will be in traffic. 90 will be next. Now I'll get a cuppa and do the bit about CIE wagon liveries...

Wow! I love the 121 as well....

On the other side they had no windows at all, just the door at the end (left hand side, looking at it broadside). They were the same loading gauge dimensions as standard CIE template of the day. The only vans of any sort that have been narrower are the "BR" vans, as a result of having been built to BR loading gauge. At least one or two of these 4w PO vans was latterly converted to a brake / genny van. One was still kicking about Heuston / Inchicore until within the last few years, converted for use in the spray train. I would imagine that it is scrapped now.

Excellent stuff - the filthy and vandalised 141 looks SO realistic! (Sad to have to say!) .. I'd check the house from top to bottom for that grifter character..... :-)

Mr Claus can be very accommodating - even on New Year's Day.... :-)

I stand corrected, garfield; my famiiliarity with them has been entirely on this side of the water! :-) Incidentally, the one at Downpatrick, 3189, shows old Southern Region green paint under its black'n'tan.

Deepest sympathies, anthony, to you and your family.

In steam days, Patrick, probably. I don't think it applied to diesel days. The few phots I have seen of this area post-1955 show the likes ofn a dirty looking A class struggling along - and indeed one with a J15 steam engine on its own, albeit with a light load. But for a model - anything's possible.

It's the Multyfarnham to Iceland all-stopper.

I wonder if the IRRS might loan its premises?

Totally right, Josefstadt. G class locos never pulled Cravens. Very occasionally, excursions ran into or out of Loughrea hauled by a main line loco which may have included the odd Craven, though personally I've never seen any pic of any Craven coach even in such a formation. Had a Craven run with a "G", it would have had to have had a genny van. In summer when heating or lighting mighn't have been needed, both 4 and 6 wheel genny vans, or Dutch or BR vans, simply fulfilled the role of guards or parcel vans. BR vans, before conversion, were standard British Rail Mk 1 full passenger brakes, like any Hornby model based on a UK prototype.

Gareth - they did look superb when brand new in blue! Talk of wagon colours prompted me to also remember the Asahi tanks - has anyone modelled them? The flat wagons were silver all over, and the tanks on them were silver with the rectangular frames in bright red. They also looked very striking.

I would echo all comments above. It just brings memories flooding back seeing these vans. I remember one trip I did from Limerick to Ballina in the one daily train which was two laminates and one of those 4 wheeled vans - and it looked distinctly lopsided that day for some reason. For the experts here on weathering (and there are more than a few judging by pics), these vans tended to be somewhat dirtier than passenger carrying vehicles, which in CIE days were always kept very clean, as were locos. For the generation immediatly before the "tin vans", the then equivalent (behind a steam engine) was often a dilapidated old 6 wheel full brake with ducket. These could be of DSE, GSW or MGWR origin, and you'd see one tagged onto trains of even the most modern (laminate / Park Royal) stock. Tin vans, however, were also to be seen on steam trains when new (dirty / silver livery), often with an equally dilapitated old wooden bogie composite!

Not sure about length of rakes, but the colour changed at first repainting. Having said that, while blue most of them gradually got so dirty tyou could hardly tell what colour they were - just like today (but without the graffiti). I have to add that I'd happily electrocute anyone who puts graffiti on anything at all, railway or otherwise!

Excellent idea - I can visualise a dirty silver "A" and a long line of loose-coupled wagons rattleing along there... and an AEC railcar on the passenger! I had plans at one stage of a similar thing based on Newcastle West - the two lines leaving it would be a helix themselves to a train leaving for Tralee would eventually come back in from Limerick! Somewhere out on the helix would be Barnagh. Maybe I'll get a start made on it SOME day!

Probably of interest to modellers is when exactly those lines started appearing? I think the white edging on platforms long pre-dates the yellow lines, which I would (wildly) guess became widespread within the last 10-15 years?

Correct on all counts! And add to that the mud off the beet itself. Wagons were really a nondescipt dirt shade. Talk about fifty shades of grey!

Yes, that would be good and is a work in progress. The DCDR has a long-standing very good relationship with the ITG in such matters. The ITG owns (as you would know) 4 of the 7 diesels there, and a future visit of a "C" class or a "121" would certainly be do-able. Personally, I'd love to see a C there (or should that be to C a see?).

Yes, Anthony. Dunluce Castle and BCDR 30 were painted in their original liveries by the UTA under the direction of the late Harold Houston, whose knowledge of all things NCC and BCDR was encyclopaedic. They can therefore be taken as absolutely accurate - more than can be said, sadly, for many things the museum have repainted themselves. 800 was accurate in CIE green until the museum added the GSR initials on the tender - it should be a flying snail for that livery. However, 800 was painted in Inchicore before being taken north, so the green paint and lining is authentic CIE. The Donegal stock in the museum is also accurate, as it is actually the livery they were taken out of traffic in. The Castlederg coach is not at all accurate, and while the colour on the Cavan & Leitrim coach is accurate enough GSR maroon, the lettering most certainly isn't right! But, as a friend of mine who works there mentioned one time, it's better an item survives in the wrong livery, than doesn't survive at all!

Hidden Agenda, that's an officially made model by / for NIR - very accurate in al details and a must to see for anyone modelling one of these engines.

Yes. She was never black, but when built almost certainly battleship grey. She was repainted at some stage in standard CIE green, lined in black and white. This livery may be seen on 800 in Cultra. Drew Donaldson's models, fascinating as they were, did not employ authentic liveries, nor the correct shade of CIE green. Having said that, they looked very well! On the subject of Cultra, there are many significant livery inaccuracies there too, despite being a museum. Apart from 800 being in CIE green but with G S markings, the goods brake has black and white markings on the ducket (should be yellow and black) and the GSWR gunpowder van is the wrong colour and has the wrong lettering, in the wrong style!

Ah Heirflick, a photo shopped 141 / 181 (or a 121?) in NIR Enterprise maroon would be a REAL talking point!

True, Anthony. I know there are several here beyond my time; and also a few younger than my youngest offspring... which is great. That's what is so good about this hobby, and of railways in general. I spent last evening in the company of a friend whose dad and my own dad would have known each other on IRRS trips in the fifties.... my nephew is now involved with real-life preservation and also has a black'n'tan era layout.....

I see that "griff" character has been sneaking about your house at night! :-)